Mazurka

Guidance Counseling; Biology. HELP! :-)

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Mazurka

This is going to be a long post, much longer than I usually do.  But I don't know how else to share the necessary background info.  

I really don't relish this guidance counseling role.  I feel inadequate and unprepared.   So if anyone can offer me some advice, I'd surely appreciate it.  The advice is for my son, Will, who is doing an extra year of high school to allow for a bit of maturing. In the following post I'm also going to share Will's Life Statement that he had to prepare for his Eagle application, because that also gives insight into what his future hopes and dreams are. He'll probably take some CC during his last year in high school, which will start this fall.  He is fairly certain he wants to go into some field in Biology, but doesn't know exactly what.   He wants to go to Community College for two years and transfer.  This is fairly easy in NC if a student takes the designated courses for an Associates Degree in Arts or an Associates Degree in Science.  There is also an Associates Degree in engineering, which allows a student to transfer straight into an engineering program.  Now, with all of these programs, there is a caveat -- students have to earn a certain grade point average (I'm not worried about this), and there is no guarantee that you'll get into the specific state school you want, just that you'll get into one of them.  That last part worries me a bit, because it seems like they could funnel you into one of the schools with a not-so-great reputation.  Now, I've talked with a CC teacher from our previous scout troop, and he said most of the state schools love the CC transfer students, because they have a proven track record, and when they transfer in their junior year, there are many students who started at the 4 years who are dropping out.  So maybe there is not a lot to worry about there.  However, I worry a bit about the particular field that Will wants to go into, because Biology often entails research or assisting with research, even as an undergrad, or so I've been told.  I don't know if this is true; it seems odd to require research for an undergrad degree.  However, most people who go into a field in Biology go on to get a Masters or even a Ph.d.   I'm honestly not sure that Will has it in him to do that.  I don't want to cut him down, because he's smart enough to do it, but he has some serious deficiencies with organization and follow through.

Anyhow, I found this great 2-year Biotechnology Degree at one of the semi-local community colleges.  It is a very full program, with what I would call some serious course-work, and it's 2 years long, including summers.  The problem?  It's an AAS degree, or an an Associates in Applied Science, which means the program is not intended as a transfer program, but rather a program to lead into a job -- the last semester actually includes an internship at a local company.   Could it transfer on to a university?  I don't know, I'd have to ask, but that is not the purpose of the program.  Here is a link to the program, just so you can see what it is.  The courses actually sound more typical of a 4-year degree, without the filler courses like social studies, languages, soft sciences, etc. It sounds like a fairly rigorous program.  Click on the course schedule to see the actual coursework.  For some reason I can't link the coursework directly.

https://www.alamancecc.edu/health-and-public-services-site/biotechnology/

I imagine he could get a degree like that, work a few years, and maybe even go back to college on the company dime.  But it would be a gamble.  And sometimes once you start working, it is hard to go back to college.  I read Will what the degree would allow him to do, which is as follows: "The curriculum objectives are designed to prepare graduates to serve as research assistants and technicians in laboratory and industrial settings and as quality control/quality assurance technicians."  He replied that he doesn't want to be an assistant, that he wants to be doing the research himself. :-). Well, I appreciate hearing that, but as a mom, I worry about a degree in Biology and finding a job if one doesn't go on to an advanced degree.  Everything I read says you pretty much need an advanced degree.   I was talking with our Scoutmaster a little bit about this, and he thinks it would be best for Will to do the regular Associate Degree in Science and then transfer to a university, rather than doing the Applied Science program and see what happens.  This scoutmaster has run a number of labs himself and has made some pretty major discoveries in the medical field, and I value his advice.  He came right out and said it can be hard to find a job with a 4-year degree in Biology, but he didn't seem to think it was impossible.  He said we just have to help Will find the right program. (And I ask myself, how?!!)  Anyhow, I know he will help us if needed.  He's offered to write recommendations if we need them.  And he's very complimentary of Will's knowledge in biological topics.  I asked him directly if he was just being nice or if he thinks Will really knows what he's talking about.  :-)   This scoutmaster also knows Will's limitations.  He knows he has a bit of a maturity problem, and some issues with socialization.  (Believe me, this is not because of homeschooling -- he's been this way since pre-school.) However, the Scoutmaster has also seen Will grow and mature, and I think he feels Will could do well in a biology-related field.  Will has a good reputation among several of the scout leaders (quite a few with advanced degrees) for his interest in plants and animals and really knowing a lot about them.  If I were ever to be lost in the wilderness, I'd probably want Will along.  :-) 

Anyhow, I know this is long.  I'm trying to give you a picture of his skills and talents.  If he were more mature and a diligent student, I would definitely want him to go directly to a 4-year school because of the normal progression in a biology-related field.  I really hate that his maturity is not on par with his brain.   And I worry that he'll go to a 4 year school, have spent that time and money, and then won't have a decent job if he is unable to continue his education to get an advanced degree.  That is why I like that AAS program I linked above.  I totally think he could do that and excel, and then he'd have something to fall back on if he couldn't hack it with an advanced biology degree.   But then, what if he misses out on a greater opportunity with an advanced degree in biology?   I will admit, I wish his love weren't biology.  I wish it were chemistry, or physics, because they are more-employable.  Biology is one of the least paid fields in science.  I can't even think of any careers in biology that require only a 4-year degree.  Maybe a park ranger? Or a lab assistant, in which case the AAS would take less time and cost less money.  Let me just say, it is hard having a smart kid who has the brain-power but not necessarily the maturity and work ethic.

Anyhow, I'm stumped.  I'm not sure what to recommend for him.  He's 18.  We held him back in high school, turning his 10th grade year into his freshman year in order to give him an extra year to mature.  He seems to think he won't have any problem with higher education, and maybe he won't.  He plans on taking a course or two at the local community college starting next fall, and I guess that will give us a better idea.  But we've got to think beyond that now -- I don't think it's prudent to wait to see how that works out.  And if he would decide to do the AAS degree, he should probably take courses at that CC instead of the one most local.  And I also worry, if he does the basic Associates of Science degree, will that end up working against him if he wants to go on to graduate school?  I really don't think it's as simple as it sounds, to get an associates in science and then transfer right into a biology program, and not be behind compared to the other students. Many students take coursework for their degree before their junior year.  I somehow had thought that community colleges would be a little more diversified than just associates in arts or associates in science.  I thought they would have more tailored classes depending on specific interest, but apparently it is sort of a one-size-fits all product.  The engineering option sounds great for Ben, because it is truly targeted into the engineering field, but the other associates degrees don't seem to be.

If you have any advice for me or Will, I would appreciate it.  If not, well, I guess typing this out has at least helped me organize my thoughts a bit. 

 

Edited by Mazurka

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Mazurka

This is Will's Life Statement that he had to prepare for his Eagle Scout application.  I'm posting this because it sheds a little more light on his aspirations and interests, particularly the second and fifth paragraphs. 

Will -- Life Statement

Scouting has done a lot for me, and now as I prepare to become an adult, I intend to take what scouting has taught me and apply it in my future life. Scouting has given me the opportunity to try many things that I never would have done otherwise, such as zip lining, rifle shooting, and skiing, among other things. Most importantly, scouting has taught me to appreciate the outdoors and how to work as part of a team and be a leader.


Since I hope to become a biologist, in high school I am taking many science courses such as chemistry, physics, and of course, biology. I have done dissections to study the inner workings of various types of animals. Since I homeschool, I have time to dig deeper into areas of personal interest. I will use the team working skills learned from my experiences in Boy Scouts to work with other biologists to develop projects as part of a team.  


Outside of school and scouts, my other extracurricular activity is To Shindo Ninjutsu, a form of martial arts. Last year I earned my Black Belt after years of intense training and a tough boot camp out in the wilderness. Since I have earned my Black Belt, I now also help teach and lead the younger students in their classes. I will continue to study and try to earn the 2nd degree Black Belt. 


With regards to my future in scouting, while I am still active in my troop, I will help out by instructing the younger scouts, and also by being a resource for anyone who needs assistance with scout requirements. In the near future, I plan to join a venturing crew and/or be an adult leader in scouts, using the skills learned from being senior patrol leader in the troop. 


After high school, I will continue my education in biology by attending community college for two years. I am interested in many things, so I have several options on what kind of career to choose. Once I have decided on a specific field in biology that I want to pursue, I will continue my studies and transfer into a four-year college and possibly go to graduate school. I plan to seek an interesting job in biology, such as in the medical industry to develop new cures, or possibly as a field biologist to discover new species of life. Through my work, I hope to positively impact the life of others.


In addition to finding a fulfilling career after college, I hope to marry and raise a family. I will also be a contributing member to the community and the nation by following the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in my everyday life. I hope to be courteous and kind to everyone I meet and be a conscientious citizen and productive employee. By being physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight, I will honor God and use my knowledge and talents for the betterment of society.

Edited by Mazurka
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Merry

Hi Susan,

I do plan on reading this tomorrow--just have to head to bed soon here & don't want to rush through!

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smalltownmommy
13 hours ago, Mazurka said:

But then, what if he misses out on a greater opportunity with an advanced degree in biology?   I will admit, I wish his love weren't biology.  I wish it were chemistry, or physics, because they are more-employable.  Biology is one of the least paid fields in science.  I can't even think of any careers in biology that require only a 4-year degree.  Maybe a park ranger? Or a lab assistant, in which case the AAS would take less time and cost less money.  Let me just say, it is hard having a smart kid who has the brain-power but not necessarily the maturity and work ethic.

Take this for what it is worth, which isn't much, because I am 53 yo, and a SAHM  who last worked preparing taxes and other accounting related work.

Biology was my dream, my passion, my inspiration from the time I was about 12 yo.  It is why I applied myself in gifted math and vocabulary programs while still in middle school, worked to skip 8th grade, applied myself in all my classes including the most mundane and boring ones, to skip my senior year and head to college early.

The financial plug got pulled before I even started because there was no future in biology if I did not want to do genetic engineering or become a medical doctor (the family doctor sort) and there were better opportunities in other fields.

I learned typing at the community college, got a job as a rental assistant that got me through a general A.A. and one year as a business major, and landed a co-op that gave me semesters of employment the earnings from which I paid rent and school expenses and got a job -- a good job -- after my B.S. --  negotiating contracts for scientists and engineers -- that I grew to loathe.

I went back to school in my late 20's with the aim to pursue molecular biology or microbiology, as a now or never jump.  I did some part-time clerical temp work. After a year or so of science courses, I took a job as a lab technician, where they would reimburse part of my tuition if I got an A.  I completed one course while at that job (Engineering Physics III), which went well, although I sometimes worked 12 hour days. I didn't do a second course because my work hours would never have allowed me to get to it. It was incredibly difficult to leave the job, because it was inconvenient for the management to replace people, and they neither wanted to give positive recommendations nor allow lower level supervisors who got grief if they said anything positive.  It was difficult to get personal time off to look for another job, and we sometimes had to come in on weekends to take readings as well. I quit shortly after getting married and went to work for a previous employer who already knew me.  The end.

Decades later, a relative with a PhD in Chemical Engineering and no particular interest in Biology in undergraduate years got a job as -- the supervisor of a biology lab.

Want to hear something crazy?  I was looking at the life after homeschooling thread and thought about taking biology classes as a hobby.  LOL.

Honestly, I would go far away from a dead end biology program unless your ds dreams to be in a supportive role rather than research.  It drove me dang near crazy when I worked in the support department negotiating contracts for people who got to do research.  I liked sitting down with people doing IRS tax forms better.

 

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Mazurka
1 hour ago, smalltownmommy said:

Take this for what it is worth, which isn't much, because I am 53 yo, and a SAHM  who last worked preparing taxes and other accounting related work.

Biology was my dream, my passion, my inspiration from the time I was about 12 yo.  It is why I applied myself in gifted math and vocabulary programs while still in middle school, worked to skip 8th grade, applied myself in all my classes including the most mundane and boring ones, to skip my senior year and head to college early.

The financial plug got pulled before I even started because there was no future in biology if I did not want to do genetic engineering or become a medical doctor (the family doctor sort) and there were better opportunities in other fields.

I learned typing at the community college, got a job as a rental assistant that got me through a general A.A. and one year as a business major, and landed a co-op that gave me semesters of employment the earnings from which I paid rent and school expenses and got a job -- a good job -- after my B.S. --  negotiating contracts for scientists and engineers -- that I grew to loathe.

I went back to school in my late 20's with the aim to pursue molecular biology or microbiology, as a now or never jump.  I did some part-time clerical temp work. After a year or so of science courses, I took a job as a lab technician, where they would reimburse part of my tuition if I got an A.  I completed one course while at that job (Engineering Physics III), which went well, although I sometimes worked 12 hour days. I didn't do a second course because my work hours would never have allowed me to get to it. It was incredibly difficult to leave the job, because it was inconvenient for the management to replace people, and they neither wanted to give positive recommendations nor allow lower level supervisors who got grief if they said anything positive.  It was difficult to get personal time off to look for another job, and we sometimes had to come in on weekends to take readings as well. I quit shortly after getting married and went to work for a previous employer who already knew me.  The end.

Decades later, a relative with a PhD in Chemical Engineering and no particular interest in Biology in undergraduate years got a job as -- the supervisor of a biology lab.

Want to hear something crazy?  I was looking at the life after homeschooling thread and thought about taking biology classes as a hobby.  LOL.

Honestly, I would go far away from a dead end biology program unless your ds dreams to be in a supportive role rather than research.  It drove me dang near crazy when I worked in the support department negotiating contracts for people who got to do research.  I liked sitting down with people doing IRS tax forms better.

 

Thanks for your input, smalltownmommy.

Was your relative with the PhD in Chemical Engineering directing the research at the lab, or just kind of the lead tech?   I think Will would like to do actual research, be it in the medical field or even working as a field biologist.  He had the opportunity this summer to go on a backpacking trip with a biologist, and while he doesn't enjoy the physical exertion of the backpacking so very much, he absolutely loved being out in the field with a biologist who was observing and tracking plants and animals.   Although, again, even though a field biology position doesn't pay all that much, you still usually have to have that advanced degree. 

I really wish he would be back into mushrooms, like he used to be.  There are some really good opportunities for mycologists in the fields of agricultural research and there is a good school for that in NC.  He still likes mushrooms, but I don't think he wants to study them exclusively. 

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Mazurka
8 hours ago, Merry said:

Hi Susan,

I do plan on reading this tomorrow--just have to head to bed soon here & don't want to rush through!

Thanks, Merry.  I know it is a long thread, which is why I almost didn't post it.  I've thought about posting for a long while, though, and since I mentioned it over on the other thread, I thought I would go ahead and take the plunge!   Although this is the sort of thing that would be easier to discuss in a cafe over a cup of coffee or tea.

Edited by Mazurka
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dwilterd

Is there not an option to just use the CC for gen-eds and then go on to the university to complete a degree? Our CC has options that are specifically set up like that. 

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Mazurka
15 minutes ago, dwilterd said:

Is there not an option to just use the CC for gen-eds and then go on to the university to complete a degree? Our CC has options that are specifically set up like that. 

Yes, that's the associates in science or the associate in arts.  They are just general ed, but if you do one of those programs, a university in the state system has to accept it.   I'm just not totally convinced that's a good thing to do for someone who already knows what his interests are.   Although the PH D from his scout troop that I mentioned above, thought that would be the best way for Will to go, rather than the AAS.   Of course, right after that he kind of mentioned how it can be hard to get a job with a degree in biology, and that "we" just need to find the right field for Will.   He indicated he'd be willing to help us.   I need to ask Will if he talked at all with him about it this past weekend, when he was riding with him for a ski trip.  

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smalltownmommy
11 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

Was your relative with the PhD in Chemical Engineering directing the research at the lab, or just kind of the lead tech?

They didn't discuss their work with me, but I don't think lead tech would describe it.  It wasn't the end, but was a step along the way.

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Hearthstone

The guarantee admission has really high GPA standards. 

The community college provides the general core classes for the university program.  It is more important for the students to get A or B in these classes since the university’s are really picky with the transfer students they take.   With or without the AS.  This is really stressful for many students.  

It may be easier for him to get into a university after taking a few dual enrollment classes as a freshman.

Look at the transfer courses for the individual university and take those classes at the cc.  For example Chem 101&102 transfer as Chem Elective.  When Chem11-112 transfer as core requirements for engineering.  

I would have him take a science class this summer when he isn’t taking other classes for the transition to the university. It is different from school he is used to. 

Make an appointment with your local cc for you and Will with the counselor. It is free and will answer many questions.   

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Mazurka
11 minutes ago, Hearthstone said:

 

Make an appointment with your local cc for you and Will with the counselor. It is free and will answer many questions.   

You know, I looked all over the website for our local community college (not the one linked above), and I could not find a contact for students considering the community college.  I saw links for guidance counselors, but they were all for students who were already enrolled.  Finally, I found out how to set up a tour, and I guess we'll start there -- surely the tour guide will be able to direct us to someone who might be able to advise a future student. 

And then I wonder, what do you call yourself, anyhow, when contacting a college about your students.  Do you call yourself a guidance counselor or a parent?  Do you go right ahead and mention that your student is homeschooled?  This is a general question, for anyone reading this thread.

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dwilterd
12 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

You know, I looked all over the website for our local community college (not the one linked above), and I could not find a contact for students considering the community college.  I saw links for guidance counselors, but they were all for students who were already enrolled.  Finally, I found out how to set up a tour, and I guess we'll start there -- surely the tour guide will be able to direct us to someone who might be able to advise a future student. 

And then I wonder, what do you call yourself, anyhow, when contacting a college about your students.  Do you call yourself a guidance counselor or a parent?  Do you go right ahead and mention that your student is homeschooled?  This is a general question, for anyone reading this thread.

Ring...ring... "Thank you for calling ______ community college, how may I direct your call?"

You: "Hi! I'm looking into options for dual-enrolling my homeschool student. Who should I talk to about that?" 

Person who answered phone: "Oh, that would be our homeschool coordinator (or whoever is in charge of that), please hold while I connect you to their office."

At that point they will hopefully transfer you to their contact for dual-enrollment.

"Hi! I'm looking into options for my homeschool student to maybe take some classes through dual-enrollment. What is the process for that at your school?"

Something like that. :)

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Mazurka
10 minutes ago, dwilterd said:

Ring...ring... "Thank you for calling ______ community college, how may I direct your call?"

You: "Hi! I'm looking into options for dual-enrolling my homeschool student. Who should I talk to about that?" 

Person who answered phone: "Oh, that would be our homeschool coordinator (or whoever is in charge of that), please hold while I connect you to their office."

At that point they will hopefully transfer you to their contact for dual-enrollment.

"Hi! I'm looking into options for my homeschool student to maybe take some classes through dual-enrollment. What is the process for that at your school?"

Something like that. :)

You know, I really, really appreciate your script! :wub:  I will definitely use this. 

 

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dwilterd
10 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

You know, I really, really appreciate your script! :wub:  I will definitely use this. 

 

If the person who answers (after you go through whatever automated options they list at first - just try to get to an operator) has no idea who you should talk to, just ask to speak with someone in admissions. Then go ahead with your questions and they'll either have the answers or they'll know who you should talk to.

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Hearthstone

Call the community college and ask to speak to someone that can assist you in planning your classes.  You are homeschool and there may be stuff the school requires for admission. 

I looked at your state community colleges.  They have strong student service support system.  Good!    

The GPA for guarantee transfer is 2-2.5 in most programs.  Which is a strong C-B student.  

They have a BioNetwork program with most of the students getting a career start at graduation.  Some of the programs are AAS.  They transfer to the University.  

They are having a program that looks interesting.  Apprenticeship NC 2018. Conference April 12-13.  This would be good to see.  It might help the boys decide what they want to do. 

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JuliaK

Will may want to look into seminars or speakers in his area(s) of interest at the local CC. (After he is enrolled his CC account may email opportunities)  Our ds was dual enrolled the past 2 years and received a number of emails about speakers, clubs and presentations in his areas of interest. Additionally, he was presented with an honors project opportunity which would allow him to work with one of his professors in an area of his interest. I was pleasantly surprised by how many opportunities students have to learn about various career opportunities.

Our CC also had different schools present their transfer programs to any interested students.  It looked like there was an abbreviated application process for applying. Additionally, scholarship info was sometimes offered as well.

Good luck to Will. God has a plan :). It can be amazing to step back and watch it unfold. One of our good friends has the BEST biology position I have ever heard of. He is the director of science at a local Christian camp. House on lake included :). Bible study every morning. Great folks. Discovering God's beauty all around, every day. Pretty awesome! It would be great to see more positions like this open up.

Blessings!

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Jackrabbit

If Will enjoys nature and the outdoors, a biology degree could be advantageous for someone who wishes to work as a US or State Ranger.

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John 3:16

I am not sure how much I can assist, but I wanted to at least share my history with you as it may provide some insight.  I have a Bachelor’s of Science degree in Biology which I received in 2000, but did not pursue any further degree.  My original intent in majoring in Biology was to go on to Veterinary Medical School.  I worked at a vet clinic and a pet shop while in college.  After working in the small animal veterinary world (which was my focus – I was not interested in large animals), and meeting the man who is now my husband, my thoughts on the future changed a bit.  First of all, I wasn’t sure this was what I wanted to do anymore, and I also did not want to be in school four more years, with A LOT of additional debt for vet school.  I was ready to get married and move on with life and be done with school.  So here I was a junior in college, only a year to go, and not sure what to do.  I ended up completing my bachelor’s degree work in Biology, and then just started looking for work in the field.  I really loved Biology, but was not sure where it would take me.

I did start out in research, working in a few different laboratories.  I did enjoy the research to some extent, but unless you are the head of the lab (advanced degree), I did not see much opportunity for advancement or income potential.  Most people when they think of research (and this is how Will would start out most likely) think of university settings.  But, eventually I ended up working in industry – first with a pharmaceutical company and most recently with a medical device company.  The biggest difference between the two is that in a University this is straight research and very often dependent upon grants.  In industry, this is more focused on product development and maintenance and therefore driven by the need for the products they produce.  Once I got into industry, the advancement and income outlook changed dramatically.  This still gave me the opportunity to feel like I was making an impact in working to develop products or pharmaceutics that impact people's lives.

So, now you are probably wondering if I am still in research.  Well, although the company I work for has a research and development group and many people working in this area, I do not work in research any longer.  About 10 years ago, I saw a job posting for the field I currently work in and thought it sounded interesting although I was not exactly sure what it was.  I got the job and worked my way up in this field and have been in this line of work for the last 10 years.  I needed a science degree to get into the field I am in, although it is not directly related to my Biology degree.  If you would have asked me while I was pursuing my degree where I would be in 15 years, I would never have thought I would be here…but the Lord knew what he was doing.  This career path has allowed my husband the opportunity to pursue a calling on being a pastor, and opened up the door for me to work at home and home school our daughter.  And to be completely honest, I love the work I do.  It is a blessing to be able to say that.

So, I just want to encourage you to trust in the Lord.  Remember He has a perfect plan for Will and this may be the course he needs to go down now, even if no one can see where it will lead.  I know you know all of that, but sometimes it is just good to hear it.  I never knew where the Lord was going to take me, and it is beautiful to see it unfold.

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Merry
9 hours ago, Mazurka said:

Thanks, Merry.  I know it is a long thread, which is why I almost didn't post it.  I've thought about posting for a long while, though, and since I mentioned it over on the other thread, I thought I would go ahead and take the plunge!   Although this is the sort of thing that would be easier to discuss in a cafe over a cup of coffee or tea.

I'd LOVE that! Come on over and we'll get coffee! Although...it's cooooold here now! And snowy...

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Merry
On 2/4/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mazurka said:

Anyhow, I found this great 2-year Biotechnology Degree at one of the semi-local community colleges.  It is a very full program, with what I would call some serious course-work, and it's 2 years long, including summers.  The problem?  It's an AAS degree, or an an Associates in Applied Science, which means the program is not intended as a transfer program, but rather a program to lead into a job -- the last semester actually includes an internship at a local company.   Could it transfer on to a university?  I don't know, I'd have to ask, but that is not the purpose of the program.  Here is a link to the program, just so you can see what it is.  The courses actually sound more typical of a 4-year degree, without the filler courses like social studies, languages, soft sciences, etc. It sounds like a fairly rigorous program.  Click on the course schedule to see the actual coursework.  For some reason I can't link the coursework directly.

https://www.alamancecc.edu/health-and-public-services-site/biotechnology/

I hear you on not relishing the "Guidance Counselor" role! I think as homeschoolers though, we have somewhat of an advantage in that we expect to need to do this. I hear of a lot of PS situations where the parents kind of assume their student will get this information from the school, but it's just not that specific--so, though it may not be much of a comfort, know that you would be doing the same if your student went to public school (or your student would have to figure it out on his own). 

I looked over the course you linked. I do see that several of the courses sound like ones that would not transfer (like the "lab techniques" class--that sounds like job prep. "Intro to Computers"--again, that's typically a job-prep type of course. I saw a few others like that).

Then I also saw a LOT of science courses, which I'm sure is what you are noticing. These may or may not be transfer courses (and you would have to either talk directly to the school or check their full course catalog to find out.) At our CC, they specifically mark every course--T for Transfer, O for Occupational, L for life-long learning etc... Only the "T" courses are meant to transfer to 4- year schools. Here, I do find that a certain number of courses within some of the AAS degrees are transfer courses, but often a majority of them are not intended as transfer courses.

Why not? There could be a few issues, depending on the class. One issue could be that the course content is geared towards the work place rather than higher ed. There of course may be some cross-over, but the overall scope of the course could make a difference in whether it's a transfer course. The second possible issue is that school may prefer students to take specific science courses--and maybe even all major-specific courses--at the school. It's not set up exactly that way here, but it's something to figure out with regard to how that works in NC. (Here they require a certain number of hours within the major be taken at the 4-year school, but not ALL "major" courses.) The  potential 3rd issue has to do with the difficulty level of the course. If the course is a "100 level" at the CC, but a harder level--"200-400" at the transfer school, then courses with the similar titles would not transfer. So...all that to say that you would need to look specifically at a course catalog or talk with an Academic Adviser to figure out how it all works within your system.

 

On 2/4/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mazurka said:

I was talking with our Scoutmaster a little bit about this, and he thinks it would be best for Will to do the regular Associate Degree in Science and then transfer to a university, rather than doing the Applied Science program and see what happens.  This scoutmaster has run a number of labs himself and has made some pretty major discoveries in the medical field, and I value his advice.  He came right out and said it can be hard to find a job with a 4-year degree in Biology, but he didn't seem to think it was impossible.  He said we just have to help Will find the right program. (And I ask myself, how?!!)  Anyhow, I know he will help us if needed.  He's offered to write recommendations if we need them.  And he's very complimentary of Will's knowledge in biological topics.  I asked him directly if he was just being nice or if he thinks Will really knows what he's talking about.  :-)   This scoutmaster also knows Will's limitations.  He knows he has a bit of a maturity problem, and some issues with socialization.  (Believe me, this is not because of homeschooling -- he's been this way since pre-school.) However, the Scoutmaster has also seen Will grow and mature, and I think he feels Will could do well in a biology-related field.  Will has a good reputation among several of the scout leaders (quite a few with advanced degrees) for his interest in plants and animals and really knowing a lot about them.  If I were ever to be lost in the wilderness, I'd probably want Will along.  :-) 

I just have to say, you have an INCREDIBLE asset and resource in this scout-master! I would go pick his brain more. Ask him to help you understand the advantage of getting the AS degree and transferring, and if he can reassure you that it isn't a negative path. (I don't see how it could be, but he will be more familiar and may be able to answer this better for you). Ask specifically what he meant about finding Will the right program and how this is done. 

On top of being knowledgeable, this man is in Will's corner! How awesome is that?!! I'd encourage you, whenever you start to worry, to see Will through the eyes of this man who has seen Will's growth over the years and as an expert himself, considers Will to be a knowledgeable young man with regard to plants and animals. Will has impressed this man and others, and that's awesome! I know we moms sometimes see how far there is to go--but these men also know your young man is a work in progress. That can be scary to us, but they know, it's okay. They've walked that path as a young work in progress too. 

FWIW, I have a niece who got her undergrad in biology, worked for labs for a couple of years, then did a couple of other jobs, and now is going back for her masters in biology. It can be done. 

I want to let you in on one big secret of being a guidance counselor and launching our kids: we don't get to know the future. I don't know why, when it came to this subject, I suddenly thought that I COULD know the future, or that I could know enough and learn enough to prepare for anything and make it all smooth sailing for my kids and know how things were going to go--but I ran smack dab into that wall! Full face plant. We don't get to know. It's full of uncertainty and fears and the unknown. We can and should try to gather information, learn what we can, and help our kids make wise decisions. BUT...we just don't get to know how it's going to turn out. I thought it was going to get a bit easier when my kids got into college, but I've learned, no, now I have to press into the Lord all the harder and learn MORE how to rely on him. The consequences seem so much bigger and scarier, and so much is out of my hands (I can advise, but these are my kids' decisions, and there's so much I just don't know...) One could make oneself crazy! So...I find I pray all the more now. And I learn, as time goes on, more and more to say--this isn't my problem to solve. It's my kid's. You can't know if he'll go on to grad school, if he'll be happy as a biology major, if he'll ever find work in that field, if he'll come back to mushrooms...you just can't. All you can do is help with information, and support him in his journey with whatever support you are willing and able to give, and pray pray pray. Ultimately he's going to have to take over all of this as he seeks his direction--and you'll be gradually relinquishing more of it over the next few years. Sometimes it will be a relief, and sometimes it will be really hard. 

 

On 2/4/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mazurka said:

Anyhow, I know this is long.  I'm trying to give you a picture of his skills and talents.  If he were more mature and a diligent student, I would definitely want him to go directly to a 4-year school because of the normal progression in a biology-related field.  I really hate that his maturity is not on par with his brain.   And I worry that he'll go to a 4 year school, have spent that time and money, and then won't have a decent job if he is unable to continue his education to get an advanced degree.  That is why I like that AAS program I linked above.  I totally think he could do that and excel, and then he'd have something to fall back on if he couldn't hack it with an advanced biology degree.   But then, what if he misses out on a greater opportunity with an advanced degree in biology?   I will admit, I wish his love weren't biology.  I wish it were chemistry, or physics, because they are more-employable.  Biology is one of the least paid fields in science.  I can't even think of any careers in biology that require only a 4-year degree.  Maybe a park ranger? Or a lab assistant, in which case the AAS would take less time and cost less money.  Let me just say, it is hard having a smart kid who has the brain-power but not necessarily the maturity and work ethic.

Yeah...ultimately only he can answer that for himself as to whether he can develop the work ethic he needs for his current goals, or whether his goals and aspirations may change over time. 

Most young men are out of sync though--their brains are still growing and developing until age 25. And if he has any ADHD, all the more. He needs time to develop all of those executive function skills.

Men tend to be more risk-takers than women. That's why you like that AAS idea. There's a sure outcome. It sounds like it's not his love though, and that being a lab assistant isn't what he's aiming for. If he hated that path and that type of job--it really wouldn't be worth it. 

 

On 2/4/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mazurka said:

Anyhow, I'm stumped.  I'm not sure what to recommend for him.  He's 18.  We held him back in high school, turning his 10th grade year into his freshman year in order to give him an extra year to mature.  He seems to think he won't have any problem with higher education, and maybe he won't.  He plans on taking a course or two at the local community college starting next fall, and I guess that will give us a better idea.  But we've got to think beyond that now -- I don't think it's prudent to wait to see how that works out.  And if he would decide to do the AAS degree, he should probably take courses at that CC instead of the one most local.  And I also worry, if he does the basic Associates of Science degree, will that end up working against him if he wants to go on to graduate school?  I really don't think it's as simple as it sounds, to get an associates in science and then transfer right into a biology program, and not be behind compared to the other students. Many students take coursework for their degree before their junior year.  I somehow had thought that community colleges would be a little more diversified than just associates in arts or associates in science.  I thought they would have more tailored classes depending on specific interest, but apparently it is sort of a one-size-fits all product.  The engineering option sounds great for Ben, because it is truly targeted into the engineering field, but the other associates degrees don't seem to be.

If you have any advice for me or Will, I would appreciate it.  If not, well, I guess typing this out has at least helped me organize my thoughts a bit. 

 

 

I agree that you want to figure some things out--but you really don't have to figure it all out. CC isn't very expensive, and it certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for him to take a year's worth of classes there and then decide that AAS is sounding good, and switch to that. Yeah, a few more dollars, but not wasted education, especially if it helps him decide what way to go.

I'm not sure I follow your concern about the regular AS degree being a potential negative in terms of grad school. If he gets the AS, he still has to finish a bachelor's at a 4-year school--and I would think it's the upper classmen who get to know instructors, do some research, and make connections for grad-school potential. So, he wouldn't miss those types of opportunities it seems. 

But, one thing you might consider doing is touring one or two potential 4 year schools. Ask to meet with the biology department head, and ask that question specifically--how are transfer students treated in this major? Are there advantages and/or disadvantages to transferring in? What about going on to grad school? And so on.

I wonder if the Associate of Science is more targeted than you are thinking. It sounded like the school you linked for the AAS is not the same one he would go to for the AS, but at least for the school you linked, they say this about the AS:

Quote

In order to complete the Associate in Science degree at Alamance Community College, students must earn 60 hours of college credit in the categories listed in the table. All students must complete at least 34 hours from the Universal General Education Transfer Component list of courses. As part of their degree, students are required to complete 32 credit hours of math, science or computer courses in the categories listed in the table.

So, he would have some required gen-ed courses (in my state I think it's 40 hours or so gen-ed requirements) and then about 24 hours of major/elective courses (this is where he could take additional science courses--and I see from the Associate of Science Transfer link that there are some general bio & chem courses, Zoology, microbiology, genetics, A&P--it seems like a number of courses for rounding out his first two years. 

If you want me to look through the other CC's website, I'd be happy to (I'm geeky and enjoy doing that, LOL!), but I'll bet it's similar, especially since it sounds like NC has a fairly standard transfer agreement. 

Hang in there! 

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Merry

I really love Will's life statement. And...your son is an Eagle Scout! That shows his perseverance and work ethic--appropriate to his age level. Time will tell if he really wants to go to grad school, but if this statement is any indication, he's an impressive young man. 

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Merry
10 hours ago, Mazurka said:

You know, I looked all over the website for our local community college (not the one linked above), and I could not find a contact for students considering the community college.  I saw links for guidance counselors, but they were all for students who were already enrolled.  Finally, I found out how to set up a tour, and I guess we'll start there -- surely the tour guide will be able to direct us to someone who might be able to advise a future student. 

And then I wonder, what do you call yourself, anyhow, when contacting a college about your students.  Do you call yourself a guidance counselor or a parent?  Do you go right ahead and mention that your student is homeschooled?  This is a general question, for anyone reading this thread.

When you do meet with someone from advising, coach Will on asking questions when he goes, and hang back a bit. Be there to ask anything he forgets to ask, but in college, they really want to talk with the student and not the parent. (They may even ask Will if it's okay if mom is there, or if it's okay to ask him certain things in front of mom etc...) FERPA laws (student protections) are as strict as HIPPA laws! 

Also, colleges sometimes have programs set up specifically to help students who may need a bit more coaching to be successful (and CC's are typically pretty good at this--they expect to do more scaffolding for transfer students, which is part of why transfer students tend to be liked at 4-year schools--they are set up to succeed). See if your CC has something like that.

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Mazurka
49 minutes ago, Merry said:

I really love Will's life statement. And...your son is an Eagle Scout! That shows his perseverance and work ethic--appropriate to his age level. Time will tell if he really wants to go to grad school, but if this statement is any indication, he's an impressive young man. 

I think the Life Statement was one of the most valuable things he had to do for his Eagle application.   It was probably one of the hardest, too.  He started out with only 4 or 5 sentences!  There were many revisions, and he got input from his Eagle advisor and others along the way.  He has a really hard time writing/talking about himself, and he is also uncomfortable making choices and decisions, some of which he had to do for that statement.   Even the lady who grades his papers for EIW has commented that he needs to work on defending a point of view instead of trying to see the benefits of all the options.  I like that he can often see how multiple options can be beneficial, but sometimes you need to pick something and stick with it, even if later you have to change it.

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Mazurka
44 minutes ago, Merry said:

When you do meet with someone from advising, coach Will on asking questions when he goes, and hang back a bit. Be there to ask anything he forgets to ask, but in college, they really want to talk with the student and not the parent. (They may even ask Will if it's okay if mom is there, or if it's okay to ask him certain things in front of mom etc...) FERPA laws (student protections) are as strict as HIPPA laws! 

Also, colleges sometimes have programs set up specifically to help students who may need a bit more coaching to be successful (and CC's are typically pretty good at this--they expect to do more scaffolding for transfer students, which is part of why transfer students tend to be liked at 4-year schools--they are set up to succeed). See if your CC has something like that.

I think the local CC actually has a course that is essentially about how to succeed at the school.  It seems like I saw that when I was browsing.  I need to check again. 

Interesting that they might ask the student for parental permission to discuss things.  I wonder if they do the same thing for a guidance counselor who is not a parent?

Funny thing, here, and this is off-topic, but semi-related.  When we went to Canada last year, we had to get a passport card for Will because he was over 16, even though he was traveling with a parent.   However, had he gone with a school group,  and not his parents, his birth certificate would have sufficed.  How weird is that? 

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mominindianapolis
27 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

I think the local CC actually has a course that is essentially about how to succeed at the school.  It seems like I saw that when I was browsing.  I need to check again. 

Interesting that they might ask the student for parental permission to discuss things.  I wonder if they do the same thing for a guidance counselor who is not a parent?

Funny thing, here, and this is off-topic, but semi-related.  When we went to Canada last year, we had to get a passport card for Will because he was over 16, even though he was traveling with a parent.   However, had he gone with a school group,  and not his parents, his birth certificate would have sufficed.  How weird is that? 

You will only be able to see grades with your childrens' permission at the college level. Just thought it might be helpful to mention that. 

Also - I have never presented myself as a guidance counselor and I don't know any homeschooling parents who have. We just interact as parents. Guidance counselors wouldn't be doing campus visits with students. I've never had any issue. Schools are happy to work with homeschoolers. They will want you to provide the necessary documents so that is where a lot of the guidance counselor thing comes in. They will be speaking mostly to the student although they will answer parent questions.

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Mazurka
1 hour ago, Merry said:

I hear you on not relishing the "Guidance Counselor" role! I think as homeschoolers though, we have somewhat of an advantage in that we expect to need to do this. I hear of a lot of PS situations where the parents kind of assume their student will get this information from the school, but it's just not that specific--so, though it may not be much of a comfort, know that you would be doing the same if your student went to public school (or your student would have to figure it out on his own). 

I looked over the course you linked. I do see that several of the courses sound like ones that would not transfer (like the "lab techniques" class--that sounds like job prep. "Intro to Computers"--again, that's typically a job-prep type of course. I saw a few others like that).

Then I also saw a LOT of science courses, which I'm sure is what you are noticing. These may or may not be transfer courses (and you would have to either talk directly to the school or check their full course catalog to find out.) At our CC, they specifically mark every course--T for Transfer, O for Occupational, L for life-long learning etc... Only the "T" courses are meant to transfer to 4- year schools. Here, I do find that a certain number of courses within some of the AAS degrees are transfer courses, but often a majority of them are not intended as transfer courses.

Why not? There could be a few issues, depending on the class. One issue could be that the course content is geared towards the work place rather than higher ed. There of course may be some cross-over, but the overall scope of the course could make a difference in whether it's a transfer course. The second possible issue is that school may prefer students to take specific science courses--and maybe even all major-specific courses--at the school. It's not set up exactly that way here, but it's something to figure out with regard to how that works in NC. (Here they require a certain number of hours within the major be taken at the 4-year school, but not ALL "major" courses.) The  potential 3rd issue has to do with the difficulty level of the course. If the course is a "100 level" at the CC, but a harder level--"200-400" at the transfer school, then courses with the similar titles would not transfer. So...all that to say that you would need to look specifically at a course catalog or talk with an Academic Adviser to figure out how it all works within your system.

 

 

Under curriculum plans for the program I linked, I noticed that most of the required courses are specially focused science classes like Genetics, Microbiology, Cell Culture, Analytical Chemistry, etc -- there are very few general ed classes in the social sciences & arts.  I think that is one of the reasons the program as a whole isn't a direct transfer.  Both the associates of science and the associates of art have a lot of those general ed courses that students take in their first year or two.  I think that is one reason I like the applied science degree, because it leaves off a lot of those classes and gets right to the meat. 

I do think the specific courses that transfer have to be labeled in a certain way.  I had forgotten about that when I stated looking at the degree programs that transfer directly.

And good point about the school guidance counselors.  I was reading a thread on TWTM, and it seems like guidance counselors are hit or miss.  

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Mazurka
20 minutes ago, mominindianapolis said:

You will only be able to see grades with your childrens' permission at the college level. Just thought it might be helpful to mention that. 

Also - I have never presented myself as a guidance counselor and I don't know any homeschooling parents who have. We just interact as parents. Guidance counselors wouldn't be doing campus visits with students. I've never had any issue. Schools are happy to work with homeschoolers. They will want you to provide the necessary documents so that is where a lot of the guidance counselor thing comes in. They will be speaking mostly to the student although they will answer parent questions.

Yes, I have heard that you can't see grades, even though you're paying for it.  I know Will will share that information, though.  I don't even think it would occur to him to withhold it.  Although I'd be one of those parents who wouldn't pay if I didn't see the grades. 

Funny thing, around here the guidance counselors take the kids on campus visits.  I didn't know that they did that until one of the moms in scouts told me.   They load up a bus and off they go.  (I was kind of jealous about that!) We have a lot of schools in our area though -- multiple CCs, and then probably a half dozen universities with a 20-30 mile radius. 

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mominindianapolis

On school time? Never heard of such a thing. Guidance counselors at my high school were beyond useless and when I worked in adult ed and even the times I have needed to deal with them to have kids sign up for the psat or get work permits (they are issued for everyone under 18 at local hign schools here) I usually have to walk them thru everything. 

Here the college reps come to the high schools. I think I visited one college thru the school when I was nominated for a symposium Senator Lugar sponsored on one campus and when I attended Girls' State at another, although that was actually thru the American Legion I guess. 

Anyway - yes, your student can give you access to grades but the school won't give it to you. Just like you can't make medical appts or get info for bills and ins without their consent once they are 18 even if you are paying. 

Our kids pay for their own college though so while it's nice to know their grades and offer encouragement, we do leave it up to them. Dd has been managing her grades at her outside classes the past 2 years and it's been good for her to have that practice I think.

It is an adjustment. She turns 18 in a few weeks and we are getting all her paperwork ready to take to the various offices once that happens. We also waited to renew her passport and oassport card until after that so that it will be good longer. 

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Mazurka
1 hour ago, Merry said:

 

I just have to say, you have an INCREDIBLE asset and resource in this scout-master! I would go pick his brain more. Ask him to help you understand the advantage of getting the AS degree and transferring, and if he can reassure you that it isn't a negative path. (I don't see how it could be, but he will be more familiar and may be able to answer this better for you). Ask specifically what he meant about finding Will the right program and how this is done. 

On top of being knowledgeable, this man is in Will's corner! How awesome is that?!! I'd encourage you, whenever you start to worry, to see Will through the eyes of this man who has seen Will's growth over the years and as an expert himself, considers Will to be a knowledgeable young man with regard to plants and animals. Will has impressed this man and others, and that's awesome! I know we moms sometimes see how far there is to go--but these men also know your young man is a work in progress. That can be scary to us, but they know, it's okay. They've walked that path as a young work in progress too. 

FWIW, I have a niece who got her undergrad in biology, worked for labs for a couple of years, then did a couple of other jobs, and now is going back for her masters in biology. It can be done. 

I

Yes, we are very lucky to know that scoutmaster.  I just asked Will if he got to talk with him on the recent ski trip, but he said he rode in a different car.  So I suggested Will find a time when he can talk with him and pick his brain a little bit.  I know Will is really shy about doing this sort of thing, though.   For example, I had to push him a little to go on that backpacking trip with the biologist this past summer, but it ended up being one of his favorite scout trips, and he got to see how a real field biologist works, tracking and taking notes. That man would probably also be a resource for Will if he needed one.  

 

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Mazurka
1 hour ago, Merry said:

 

I want to let you in on one big secret of being a guidance counselor and launching our kids: we don't get to know the future. I don't know why, when it came to this subject, I suddenly thought that I COULD know the future, or that I could know enough and learn enough to prepare for anything and make it all smooth sailing for my kids and know how things were going to go--but I ran smack dab into that wall! Full face plant. We don't get to know. It's full of uncertainty and fears and the unknown. We can and should try to gather information, learn what we can, and help our kids make wise decisions. BUT...we just don't get to know how it's going to turn out. I thought it was going to get a bit easier when my kids got into college, but I've learned, no, now I have to press into the Lord all the harder and learn MORE how to rely on him. The consequences seem so much bigger and scarier, and so much is out of my hands (I can advise, but these are my kids' decisions, and there's so much I just don't know...) One could make oneself crazy! So...I find I pray all the more now. And I learn, as time goes on, more and more to say--this isn't my problem to solve. It's my kid's. You can't know if he'll go on to grad school, if he'll be happy as a biology major, if he'll ever find work in that field, if he'll come back to mushrooms...you just can't. All you can do is help with information, and support him in his journey with whatever support you are willing and able to give, and pray pray pray. Ultimately he's going to have to take over all of this as he seeks his direction--and you'll be gradually relinquishing more of it over the next few years. Sometimes it will be a relief, and sometimes it will be really hard. 

 

 

I'm answering your post in blocks because I have not really found a good way to do multi quotes from the same post like we did in the past.  I can do it, but it's a lot of weird cutting and pasting and place holding, and is hard on a longer post.  Just in case your wondering why I'm doing it this way.  LOL!

Yes, this is definitely the hard part -- we can't predict the future, and higher education can be such an expensive gamble.   I think I would have had an easier time if Ben had been my oldest, but I didn't get to choose the birth order of my children!   Ben just naturally takes over and does things, and you don't really know when the transition happened.  It just does.   I always feel all weird with the birth order of my children, because my husband and I have both relied on Ben for certain things that the older child really should be doing.  I think Will has often looked to Ben for certain things, too.  Ben is a natural leader and teacher.  But that is neither here nor there, I know.   I've got to figure this out with the birth order I have.  It's just so hard in this world today, when making a living salary and just surviving can be so difficult. 

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Bendxap
11 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

I'm answering your post in blocks because I have not really found a good way to do multi quotes from the same post like we did in the past.

 

11 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

 

 I can do it, but it's a lot of weird cutting and pasting and place holding,

 

11 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

 

and is hard on a longer post.  Just in case your wondering why I'm doing it this way.  LOL!

Susan, try putting your cursor at then end of a paragraph or even making a paragraph break where you want to split the quote. Then give two quick Enters and it should break the quote box into two. Notice "it should", there have been times I couldn't get it to go and have a string of Enters. It seems that the most important part is that the cursor has to be at the end of a paragraph. The extra lines in the second and third boxes (above) are from making it into three paragraphs and then I went back to the end of the new paragraph and gave it two Enters to "break" the quote box.

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Mazurka
2 hours ago, Merry said:

 

 

Men tend to be more risk-takers than women. That's why you like that AAS idea. There's a sure outcome. It sounds like it's not his love though, and that being a lab assistant isn't what he's aiming for. If he hated that path and that type of job--it really wouldn't be worth it. 

 

You are so right, Merry.  I want that sure outcome!  I know he would do fine in that program, and he would have that required internship that would possibly lead to a job with a decent starting salary.  But yes.  That's not his love, and I probably need to just clean that off the plate. 

 

 

I agree that you want to figure some things out--but you really don't have to figure it all out. CC isn't very expensive, and it certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for him to take a year's worth of classes there and then decide that AAS is sounding good, and switch to that. Yeah, a few more dollars, but not wasted education, especially if it helps him decide what way to go.

I'm not sure I follow your concern about the regular AS degree being a potential negative in terms of grad school. If he gets the AS, he still has to finish a bachelor's at a 4-year school--and I would think it's the upper classmen who get to know instructors, do some research, and make connections for grad-school potential. So, he wouldn't miss those types of opportunities it seems. 

But, one thing you might consider doing is touring one or two potential 4 year schools. Ask to meet with the biology department head, and ask that question specifically--how are transfer students treated in this major? Are there advantages and/or disadvantages to transferring in? What about going on to grad school? And so on.

I wonder if the Associate of Science is more targeted than you are thinking. It sounded like the school you linked for the AAS is not the same one he would go to for the AS, but at least for the school you linked, they say this about the AS:

So, he would have some required gen-ed courses (in my state I think it's 40 hours or so gen-ed requirements) and then about 24 hours of major/elective courses (this is where he could take additional science courses--and I see from the Associate of Science Transfer link that there are some general bio & chem courses, Zoology, microbiology, genetics, A&P--it seems like a number of courses for rounding out his first two years. 

If you want me to look through the other CC's website, I'd be happy to (I'm geeky and enjoy doing that, LOL!), but I'll bet it's similar, especially since it sounds like NC has a fairly standard transfer agreement. 

Hang in there! 

This is a good point.  It's true that the  CC is really not that expensive.  Plus, he can probably get a couple of classes for "free" via dual enrollment.  And by living at home, he is also not throwing away a bunch of money on overpriced housing and campus food. 

asdfdsads

 

I'm not sure I follow your concern about the regular AS degree being a potential negative in terms of grad school. If he gets the AS, he still has to finish a bachelor's at a 4-year school--and I would think it's the upper classmen who get to know instructors, do some research, and make connections for grad-school potential. So, he wouldn't miss those types of opportunities it seems. 

But, one thing you might consider doing is touring one or two potential 4 year schools. Ask to meet with the biology department head, and ask that question specifically--how are transfer students treated in this major? Are there advantages and/or disadvantages to transferring in? What about going on to grad school? And so on.

I wonder if the Associate of Science is more targeted than you are thinking. It sounded like the school you linked for the AAS is not the same one he would go to for the AS, but at least for the school you linked, they say this about the AS:

So, he would have some required gen-ed courses (in my state I think it's 40 hours or so gen-ed requirements) and then about 24 hours of major/elective courses (this is where he could take additional science courses--and I see from the Associate of Science Transfer link that there are some general bio & chem courses, Zoology, microbiology, genetics, A&P--it seems like a number of courses for rounding out his first two years. 

If you want me to look through the other CC's website, I'd be happy to (I'm geeky and enjoy doing that, LOL!), but I'll bet it's similar, especially since it sounds like NC has a fairly standard transfer agreement. 

Hang in there! 

I need to spend some more time looking at the courses offered.  Unfortunately, the local branch of the CC does not have a huge selection of courses, so he'd probably have to go to the main campus at the next city over for most general ed classes, in which cases the CC I linked above might be a better option anyhow, even if he doesn't do the AAS program.   My town doesn't have it's own CC, only a branch from a neighboring county, I think because the county I live in is home to a major university so the county didn't get a CC, too.

 

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Mazurka

Thanks Merry and everyone else for your input.  I will come back to this thread tomorrow.  I spent over 4 hours in a dental chair today and I am wiped out.  Why does sitting in a dental chair with your mouth open make you so tired?!!

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Mazurka
11 minutes ago, Bendxap said:

 

 

Susan, try putting your cursor at then end of a paragraph or even making a paragraph break where you want to split the quote. Then give two quick Enters and it should break the quote box into two. Notice "it should", there have been times I couldn't get it to go and have a string of Enters. It seems that the most important part is that the cursor has to be at the end of a paragraph. The extra lines in the second and third boxes (above) are from making it into three paragraphs and then I went back to the end of the new paragraph and gave it two Enters to "break" the quote box.

I'm going to try this, Bendxap!  Oh, I'm so excited about the possibility.  I really miss that feature from the previous forum software.

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Merry
19 minutes ago, Bendxap said:

Susan, try putting your cursor at then end of a paragraph or even making a paragraph break where you want to split the quote. Then give two quick Enters and it should break the quote box into two. Notice "it should", there have been times I couldn't get it to go and have a string of Enters.

 

19 minutes ago, Bendxap said:

It seems that the most important part is that the cursor has to be at the end of a paragraph. The extra lines in the second and third boxes (above) are from making it into three paragraphs and then I went back to the end of the new paragraph and gave it two Enters to "break" the quote box.

WOW! I never knew I could do this! Here I always copy and paste the boxes multiple times! Thanks! 

I took your quote and made it have two paragraphs and then tried your trick--worked great. (mind-blown, LOL!)

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20 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

You are so right, Merry.  I want that sure outcome!  I know he would do fine in that program, and he would have that required internship that would possibly lead to a job with a decent starting salary.  But yes.  That's not his love, and I probably need to just clean that off the plate. 

This is a good point.  It's true that the  CC is really not that expensive.  Plus, he can probably get a couple of classes for "free" via dual enrollment.  And by living at home, he is also not throwing away a bunch of money on overpriced housing and campus food. 

My son will actually get his AA degree with 2 or 3 extra classes, just because he was exploring interests. 

20 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

I need to spend some more time looking at the courses offered.  Unfortunately, the local branch of the CC does not have a huge selection of courses, so he'd probably have to go to the main campus at the next city over for most general ed classes, in which cases the CC I linked above might be a better option anyhow, even if he doesn't do the AAS program.   My town doesn't have it's own CC, only a branch from a neighboring county, I think because the county I live in is home to a major university so the county didn't get a CC, too.

 

That's too bad. I hope the neighboring city is still fairly close. But wow, how close is the major university? Is that doable as a commuter school if he wanted to? We don't really have a 4-year U within commuting difference (well, not public--a couple of privates that wouldn't really be doable for us.)

 

19 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

Thanks Merry and everyone else for your input.  I will come back to this thread tomorrow.  I spent over 4 hours in a dental chair today and I am wiped out.  Why does sitting in a dental chair with your mouth open make you so tired?!!

Oh my! I hurt for you! I'd be totally wiped! Feel better soon!!

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Merry
39 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

Under curriculum plans for the program I linked, I noticed that most of the required courses are specially focused science classes like Genetics, Microbiology, Cell Culture, Analytical Chemistry, etc -- there are very few general ed classes in the social sciences & arts.  I think that is one of the reasons the program as a whole isn't a direct transfer.  Both the associates of science and the associates of art have a lot of those general ed courses that students take in their first year or two.  I think that is one reason I like the applied science degree, because it leaves off a lot of those classes and gets right to the meat. 

I do think the specific courses that transfer have to be labeled in a certain way.  I had forgotten about that when I stated looking at the degree programs that transfer directly.

And good point about the school guidance counselors.  I was reading a thread on TWTM, and it seems like guidance counselors are hit or miss.  

Okay, I compared the Biotechnology AAS Course list to the Associate of Science degree courses to see which ones were listed as transfer courses, and which ones were not listed. The following are NOT listed on the AS page as transfer courses:

None of the BTC courses: 181, 281, 285, 150, 275, 286, 287, and 288.

WBL 112.

Intro to Chem 131 and Lab (this is not as high of a number as the General Chemistry course, which IS a transfer course, so I suspect it's easier/lighter info)

Chem 132 Organic and Bio Chemistry (again, lower number than the first chem transfer course)

Chem 263 Analytic Chemistry--this one kind of surprised me because of the higher number. However, the title sounds a bit like it's not a traditional science course, so maybe that's why. That might be one to verify though.

Not sure on the "Higher CIS/CSC" since there was no number, but I didn't see that listed on the AS degree page.

That's 41-44 credit hours that would not transfer, and 24-28 that could potentially transfer. 

You're right that if he goes with an AS degree, he'll have more humanities-oriented gen-eds (that's part of that "well-rounded" coursework that a traditional bachelor's degree is going to require), but he could also have more higher level science courses that aren't included in the Applied Science degree, depending on his interests and what science electives he takes. You can look at the offerings on the AS degree page for options. And of course upon going to a 4-year school, he'd have more higher level science courses as well.

 

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Bendxap
9 hours ago, Mazurka said:

Thanks Merry and everyone else for your input.  I will come back to this thread tomorrow.  I spent over 4 hours in a dental chair today and I am wiped out.  Why does sitting in a dental chair with your mouth open make you so tired?!!

I don't know why but that's my fate for today, too. I hope it's not four hours today but I've had plenty in the last month and will have more this month. :( 

9 hours ago, Merry said:

WOW! I never knew I could do this! Here I always copy and paste the boxes multiple times! Thanks! 

I took your quote and made it have two paragraphs and then tried your trick--worked great. (mind-blown, LOL!)

Just for the record: I didn't figure it out. Someone else here shared it a while back. (I don't remember who to give them their deserved credit!)

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11 hours ago, Merry said:

My son will actually get his AA degree with 2 or 3 extra classes, just because he was exploring interests. 

That's too bad. I hope the neighboring city is still fairly close. But wow, how close is the major university? Is that doable as a commuter school if he wanted to? We don't really have a 4-year U within commuting difference (well, not public--a couple of privates that wouldn't really be doable for us.)

It's the state's flagship (UNC-CH) and is very hard to get into.  I went there, but that was a long, long time ago.  I had good grades, a decent SAT and a good record of extracurriculars, but I would never be accepted today.   Maybe as a long shot, but it would not be likely.   They used to have a requirement that all freshman live on campus, but I don't know if that is still the case today.  Honestly, I'm not even sure I'd want one of my kids to go there.  They have some strange rules today, like a student MUST graduate in 4 years.  There are almost no exceptions to that.  One of my friend's daughters wanted to spend a semester abroad, but she couldn't do that without falling behind in her major, and she couldn't get a semester's extension.  I was asking my friend about it (and she is a pseudo faculty member herself), and she said it is because the powers that be want to move people through and that it's not considered fair for one student to take up more resources, because it's a state-supported university, even if it's not cheap to the student, lol. 

Quote

 

Oh my! I hurt for you! I'd be totally wiped! Feel better soon!!

I went in for a filling, but ended up with a crown, which is why it took so long.  I was not so very happy about that!  Ugh.  And I have another one to do, too.  

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2 hours ago, Bendxap said:

I don't know why but that's my fate for today, too. I hope it's not four hours today but I've had plenty in the last month and will have more this month. :( 

Just for the record: I didn't figure it out. Someone else here shared it a while back. (I don't remember who to give them their deserved credit!)

Sorry you've got to visit the chair, too.  I hope your experience turns out better than mine.

And Woohoo!  Your trick worked.  I am so excited about that!  That is actually easier than on the old forums.  Thanks so much for the tip, even if you don't remember who you got it from! 

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Mazurka
11 hours ago, Merry said:

Okay, I compared the Biotechnology AAS Course list to the Associate of Science degree courses to see which ones were listed as transfer courses, and which ones were not listed. The following are NOT listed on the AS page as transfer courses:

None of the BTC courses: 181, 281, 285, 150, 275, 286, 287, and 288.

WBL 112.

Intro to Chem 131 and Lab (this is not as high of a number as the General Chemistry course, which IS a transfer course, so I suspect it's easier/lighter info)

Chem 132 Organic and Bio Chemistry (again, lower number than the first chem transfer course)

Chem 263 Analytic Chemistry--this one kind of surprised me because of the higher number. However, the title sounds a bit like it's not a traditional science course, so maybe that's why. That might be one to verify though.

Not sure on the "Higher CIS/CSC" since there was no number, but I didn't see that listed on the AS degree page.

That's 41-44 credit hours that would not transfer, and 24-28 that could potentially transfer. 

You're right that if he goes with an AS degree, he'll have more humanities-oriented gen-eds (that's part of that "well-rounded" coursework that a traditional bachelor's degree is going to require), but he could also have more higher level science courses that aren't included in the Applied Science degree, depending on his interests and what science electives he takes. You can look at the offerings on the AS degree page for options. And of course upon going to a 4-year school, he'd have more higher level science courses as well.

 

It does make me wonder though, why courses like Microbiology and as you mentioned, Analytic Chemistry, don't count.  Maybe they are not as good as they sound. 

I need to compare the two schools and see which one might have better courses for Will's interests.   And I want to make sure that pretty much every course, or at least most, will transfer.

Thanks for breaking things down.  It's very interesting to me, and it makes me wonder about the quality of the courses, too.  They sound so good, but maybe they are not as difficult as they sound.  Sometimes it's the ol' if it seems to be too good to be true...

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12 hours ago, mominindianapolis said:

On school time? Never heard of such a thing. Guidance counselors at my high school were beyond useless and when I worked in adult ed and even the times I have needed to deal with them to have kids sign up for the psat or get work permits (they are issued for everyone under 18 at local hign schools here) I usually have to walk them thru everything. 

Yeah, it was on school time.  I was kind of shocked as well.  I was asking my friend about how she arranged her campus tour and that's when she told me she didn't have to do anything, that the school handled it all. 

12 hours ago, mominindianapolis said:

Here the college reps come to the high schools. I think I visited one college thru the school when I was nominated for a symposium Senator Lugar sponsored on one campus and when I attended Girls' State at another, although that was actually thru the American Legion I guess. 

 

I think it is great that college reps come to the schools.  They didn't do that back in my day, but I bet they do that here, now,  too.   It makes sense, especially for the state schools. 

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15 hours ago, John 3:16 said:

I am not sure how much I can assist, but I wanted to at least share my history with you as it may provide some insight.  I have a Bachelor’s of Science degree in Biology which I received in 2000, but did not pursue any further degree.  My original intent in majoring in Biology was to go on to Veterinary Medical School.  I worked at a vet clinic and a pet shop while in college.  After working in the small animal veterinary world (which was my focus – I was not interested in large animals), and meeting the man who is now my husband, my thoughts on the future changed a bit.  First of all, I wasn’t sure this was what I wanted to do anymore, and I also did not want to be in school four more years, with A LOT of additional debt for vet school.  I was ready to get married and move on with life and be done with school.  So here I was a junior in college, only a year to go, and not sure what to do.  I ended up completing my bachelor’s degree work in Biology, and then just started looking for work in the field.  I really loved Biology, but was not sure where it would take me.

I did start out in research, working in a few different laboratories.  I did enjoy the research to some extent, but unless you are the head of the lab (advanced degree), I did not see much opportunity for advancement or income potential.  Most people when they think of research (and this is how Will would start out most likely) think of university settings.  But, eventually I ended up working in industry – first with a pharmaceutical company and most recently with a medical device company.  The biggest difference between the two is that in a University this is straight research and very often dependent upon grants.  In industry, this is more focused on product development and maintenance and therefore driven by the need for the products they produce.  Once I got into industry, the advancement and income outlook changed dramatically.  This still gave me the opportunity to feel like I was making an impact in working to develop products or pharmaceutics that impact people's lives.

So, now you are probably wondering if I am still in research.  Well, although the company I work for has a research and development group and many people working in this area, I do not work in research any longer.  About 10 years ago, I saw a job posting for the field I currently work in and thought it sounded interesting although I was not exactly sure what it was.  I got the job and worked my way up in this field and have been in this line of work for the last 10 years.  I needed a science degree to get into the field I am in, although it is not directly related to my Biology degree.  If you would have asked me while I was pursuing my degree where I would be in 15 years, I would never have thought I would be here…but the Lord knew what he was doing.  This career path has allowed my husband the opportunity to pursue a calling on being a pastor, and opened up the door for me to work at home and home school our daughter.  And to be completely honest, I love the work I do.  It is a blessing to be able to say that.

So, I just want to encourage you to trust in the Lord.  Remember He has a perfect plan for Will and this may be the course he needs to go down now, even if no one can see where it will lead.  I know you know all of that, but sometimes it is just good to hear it.  I never knew where the Lord was going to take me, and it is beautiful to see it unfold.

Thank you for sharing your story.  I really appreciate it.   

Around here there are definitely a lot of businesses that do research -- the pharma industry is big, here, and there are a lot of research companies in general.  I think that is why the one school has that AAS degree in biotechnology.  I'm guessing the businesses in the area had a need for it and requested the CC to come up with a program.  It's probably one of the reasons the program has a required internship with local industry.

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18 hours ago, JuliaK said:

Will may want to look into seminars or speakers in his area(s) of interest at the local CC. (After he is enrolled his CC account may email opportunities)  Our ds was dual enrolled the past 2 years and received a number of emails about speakers, clubs and presentations in his areas of interest. Additionally, he was presented with an honors project opportunity which would allow him to work with one of his professors in an area of his interest. I was pleasantly surprised by how many opportunities students have to learn about various career opportunities.

I didn't even know CCs had things like honors projects!  I also never considered that they might have things like clubs, so I am glad you pointed that out. 

 

18 hours ago, JuliaK said:

Our CC also had different schools present their transfer programs to any interested students.  It looked like there was an abbreviated application process for applying. Additionally, scholarship info was sometimes offered as well.

Good luck to Will. God has a plan :). It can be amazing to step back and watch it unfold. One of our good friends has the BEST biology position I have ever heard of. He is the director of science at a local Christian camp. House on lake included :). Bible study every morning. Great folks. Discovering God's beauty all around, every day. Pretty awesome! It would be great to see more positions like this open up.

Blessings!

Thank you for the encouragement!

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Mazurka
23 hours ago, Hearthstone said:

Call the community college and ask to speak to someone that can assist you in planning your classes.  You are homeschool and there may be stuff the school requires for admission. 

I looked at your state community colleges.  They have strong student service support system.  Good!    

The GPA for guarantee transfer is 2-2.5 in most programs.  Which is a strong C-B student.  

They have a BioNetwork program with most of the students getting a career start at graduation.  Some of the programs are AAS.  They transfer to the University.  

They are having a program that looks interesting.  Apprenticeship NC 2018. Conference April 12-13.  This would be good to see.  It might help the boys decide what they want to do. 

Thanks for your input, Hearthstone.  I'm starting to put together a to-do list of what we need to accomplish this semester.  This thread has really helped me sort through options and think of things that I hadn't considered.

18 hours ago, Jackrabbit said:

If Will enjoys nature and the outdoors, a biology degree could be advantageous for someone who wishes to work as a US or State Ranger.

He'd make a great park ranger!  He takes utter delight in living things outdoors, particularly plants.   Although he doesn't always like the physical exertion required for outdoor work, which is kind of funny.   He went on this strenuous backpacking trip this past summer, but he didn't really go on it for the hiking experience, but for the opportunity to be immersed in plants and wildlife.

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mominindianapolis
1 hour ago, Mazurka said:

Yeah, it was on school time.  I was kind of shocked as well.  I was asking my friend about how she arranged her campus tour and that's when she told me she didn't have to do anything, that the school handled it all. 

I think it is great that college reps come to the schools.  They didn't do that back in my day, but I bet they do that here, now,  too.   It makes sense, especially for the state schools. 

I graduated in the 80's and I know the reps visited schools back then and you could arrange to meet with them and then set up on-campus visits. That's been how it has worked for my nieces and nephews and the kids I know in public and private schools since then. We went along on a visit with my sil and her boys last summer and I just called admissions at IU and set it up thru their system. They have multiple tours daily and then if students want to learn more about an honors or specific course they sign up for that separately. They provided a parking pass and that was about it. Private colleges have provided meal vouchers. When dd stayed the night in a dorm at one there was a small fee and that went to the student who hosted her. 

Anyway - I hope you give the cc's a call. I think it will really put your mind at ease to just get the specific info from them since none of us can provide that. Facts are always more comforting to work with for me because then you can look at all the options instead of stressing over speculating. 

What do your dh and Will think? 

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Merry
3 hours ago, Mazurka said:

They have some strange rules today, like a student MUST graduate in 4 years.  

How does a school enforce that? Like--register for a minimum 15/16 credits or you can't register at all? Or, if you're not graduated in 4 years, too bad--you have to transfer to another school and meet their grad requirements? That's just bizarre to me!

3 hours ago, Mazurka said:

It does make me wonder though, why courses like Microbiology and as you mentioned, Analytic Chemistry, don't count.  Maybe they are not as good as they sound. 

I need to compare the two schools and see which one might have better courses for Will's interests.   And I want to make sure that pretty much every course, or at least most, will transfer.

Thanks for breaking things down.  It's very interesting to me, and it makes me wonder about the quality of the courses, too.  They sound so good, but maybe they are not as difficult as they sound.  Sometimes it's the ol' if it seems to be too good to be true...

It could be easier content, but it could also be just different content. The goal of an Applied Science degree is to go immediately into the workforce, and it qualifies you for specific types of jobs--so the classes are geared towards what the industry wants for workers in those particular jobs. I don't know if the only goal of the biotech degree is to become a lab assistant (I didn't look that closely)--but if it is, then the classes would be geared towards everything that businesses want their lab assistants to know. 

A biology major at a 4-year school has different goals in mind (such as Will's goal for wanting to possibly research cures for illnesses or someone who wants to be pre-med..,obviously there can be multiple goals for being a bio major)--so the coursework is going to be geared towards that instead of learning how to be a lab tech.

That's not the same as the content being easy--just different.

 

3 hours ago, Mazurka said:

I didn't even know CCs had things like honors projects!  I also never considered that they might have things like clubs, so I am glad you pointed that out. 

Our CC does this too :-).

(And also, in case you didn't know, many CC's give out scholarships, and even if it's only $500 or $1000, that can really help. They're worth applying for. As I tell my kids, when else in life can you potentially earn that kind of money for the time it takes to write a couple of paragraphs?! They've enabled us to continue saving towards that transfer to a 4-year school too.)

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6 hours ago, mominindianapolis said:

 

What do your dh and Will think? 

Will is the one who decided to go the community college route, and DH certainly backs him on that.  My DH is a huge community college fan, since that's the route he took. :-) As far as a particular program or campus, Will is open to different options, although there are only two, maybe three campuses that would really be feasible, due to distance.    I think the main thing Will needs to start thinking about is what kind of a specific major he might want once he transfers.  Plain vanilla biology?  Or bio-chemistry?  (He likes chemistry and is pretty good at it).  Or maybe something in the agricultural field, which is a pretty good field, and NC State has a good reputation for agricultural research.  He seems to prefer the study of plants over the study of animals, so that is something else to consider. 

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3 hours ago, Merry said:

How does a school enforce that? Like--register for a minimum 15/16 credits or you can't register at all? Or, if you're not graduated in 4 years, too bad--you have to transfer to another school and meet their grad requirements? That's just bizarre to me!

This is the policy, in blue:

Students who enter the University as first-year students are expected to complete their undergraduate degree in eight semesters of full-time enrollment, excluding summer terms. Under rare and extenuating circumstances, students may request permission to enroll for an additional semester. Students who have valid reasons to request additional semesters are encouraged to complete and submit the Additional Semester Appeal Form.

Note: Any student who is permitted to enroll in a ninth semester or beyond may retain a second major and a minor or two minors; however, permission for a ninth semester or beyond will not be granted for the sole purpose of completing multiple areas of study (i.e., a second major and minor or two minors)

Interestingly enough, it looks like transfer students get more time.

Transfer students who transfer in the UNC-Chapel Hill equivalent of two or more semesters may automatically enroll in up to 10 semesters and complete up to three areas of study (i.e., a second major and a minor or two minors) without permission. 

Interestingly enough, it looks like now the University will permit an extra semester to allow for study abroad.  That's what my friend's daughter was unable to do a few years back.  I wonder if they changed it because not enough people were able to participate without hurting their ability to graduate in time.

Fun factoid: The new US Ambassador to Spain was in the same study abroad program with me in Seville via the UNC program. Also @Diana in NC.  Kinda cool.

Anyhow, here is a link to the policy.  It's kind of interesting, really.  I don't think it's for all of the schools in the UNC system.  As far as I know, it is just for UNC Chapel Hill because it is such an in-demand school.

https://advising.unc.edu/policies-and-procedures/additional-semester-appeal/

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It could be easier content, but it could also be just different content. The goal of an Applied Science degree is to go immediately into the workforce, and it qualifies you for specific types of jobs--so the classes are geared towards what the industry wants for workers in those particular jobs. I don't know if the only goal of the biotech degree is to become a lab assistant (I didn't look that closely)--but if it is, then the classes would be geared towards everything that businesses want their lab assistants to know. 

A biology major at a 4-year school has different goals in mind (such as Will's goal for wanting to possibly research cures for illnesses or someone who wants to be pre-med..,obviously there can be multiple goals for being a bio major)--so the coursework is going to be geared towards that instead of learning how to be a lab tech.

That's not the same as the content being easy--just different.

Yeah, unfortunately I'm beginning to think that program won't work for him, at least according to what he wants to do.  I am going to look, though, and see what other kinds of options/opportunities might be offered through that school.

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Our CC does this too :-).

(And also, in case you didn't know, many CC's give out scholarships, and even if it's only $500 or $1000, that can really help. They're worth applying for. As I tell my kids, when else in life can you potentially earn that kind of money for the time it takes to write a couple of paragraphs?! They've enabled us to continue saving towards that transfer to a 4-year school too.)

When I was talking with the dental technician yesterday, she told me that she was able to get great scholarship money to the above-mentioned CC, despite the fact that her parents refused to fill out the FAFSA or help her with expenses.  She said the student support staff at that CC is amazing, which is another reason I will continue to research there, even though the Biotech AAS is probably not going to work for Will.

And oh my goodness, I love this easy way of separating quotes!  Wow.  It's actually way better than on the old forums. :)

Edited by Mazurka
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Bendxap
7 hours ago, Mazurka said:

Sorry you've got to visit the chair, too.  I hope your experience turns out better than mine.

Only better in the sense that what I went for I got. Got the permanent crown adjusted and glued. Root canal on a broken tooth. I was there about four hours but not in the chair all the time since the root canal gal was behind in her patients. I go on Friday to get the crown started for that tooth. And then there are two molar implants that I need.... I've been singing the Take Care of Your Teeth and Body song to my sons.

7 hours ago, Mazurka said:

And Woohoo!  Your trick worked.  I am so excited about that!  That is actually easier than on the old forums.  Thanks so much for the tip, even if you don't remember who you got it from! 

I'm so glad!

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Mazurka
9 minutes ago, Bendxap said:

Only better in the sense that what I went for I got. Got the permanent crown adjusted and glued. Root canal on a broken tooth. I was there about four hours but not in the chair all the time since the root canal gal was behind in her patients. I go on Friday to get the crown started for that tooth. And then there are two molar implants that I need.... I've been singing the Take Care of Your Teeth and Body song to my sons.

I am lucky that my dentist has an in-house milling machine, so I usually get the crown the same day he grinds down the teeth.  Although in certain circumstances he still sends them off because I think he feels they are stronger for some applications. 

 

9 minutes ago, Bendxap said:

I'm so glad!

This is truly wonderful.  It makes my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Now, if only I could get Sunlight to number the posts....

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mominindianapolis
33 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

Will is the one who decided to go the community college route, and DH certainly backs him on that.  My DH is a huge community college fan, since that's the route he took. :-) As far as a particular program or campus, Will is open to different options, although there are only two, maybe three campuses that would really be feasible, due to distance.    I think the main thing Will needs to start thinking about is what kind of a specific major he might want once he transfers.  Plain vanilla biology?  Or bio-chemistry?  (He likes chemistry and is pretty good at it).  Or maybe something in the agricultural field, which is a pretty good field, and NC State has a good reputation for agricultural research.  He seems to prefer the study of plants over the study of animals, so that is something else to consider. 

I guess I meant more that it's clear you are looking at all the info and so forth in depth and I wondered if your dh and Will are also doing so and then based on the info what they think. 

Is there a reason you haven't gone to or spoken with the schools regarding your questions? If I am missing something or there are other considerations I am not aware of I want to know for my own info. 

We live right at the edge of actual commuting distance from the main IU campus so dd would have that option as well as IUPUI (IU/Purdue) in downtown Indy. My nephew has gone that route and dd is considering it as well as a variety of other non-traditional but affordable options both online and local. I'm glad she is willing to get creative rather than want to take on debt.

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Mazurka
15 minutes ago, mominindianapolis said:

I guess I meant more that it's clear you are looking at all the info and so forth in depth and I wondered if your dh and Will are also doing so and then based on the info what they think. 

My DH is not doing any college research, but I've already told him he's in charge of the FAFSA.  We're kind of a divide and conquer family, although I hope for more input from him when Ben starts researching schools, because my DH is an engineer and has even recruited at colleges , including one of the colleges that Ben is going to consider. 

Will hasn't done any research because he already decided he wants to go to the community college, and as far as he's concerned, that's a done deal.  What he hasn't considered is that there are more options than just one, and that he needs to start thinking a bit about what kinds of specific majors he's interested in.  So that is what his job will be this spring.  To do some career research.  I'm hoping his scoutmaster can help him with this, too.   I don't think he needs to pick one thing, but to kind of start the process of narrowing his focus.  Which is hard for someone who is interested in everything.

 

15 minutes ago, mominindianapolis said:

Is there a reason you haven't gone to or spoken with the schools regarding your questions? If I am missing something or there are other considerations I am not aware of I want to know for my own info. 

 

I haven't contacted any schools yet because I'm just in the beginning stages of the process, which is why I came here for advice first.  Based on this thread, I've made a mental list of things I need to do, and I will be putting those to paper soon. 

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Bendxap
51 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

I am lucky that my dentist has an in-house milling machine, so I usually get the crown the same day he grinds down the teeth.  Although in certain circumstances he still sends them off because I think he feels they are stronger for some applications. 

That would be nice! My dentist fussed about making one visit for the crown and root canal but when I told him it takes me an hour driving each way, he was more amenable to the idea.

51 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

This is truly wonderful.  It makes my forum experience so much more enjoyable.  Now, if only I could get Sunlight to number the posts....

I'd love to have the preview of the original post and made the time and date it was made. I guess we can dream! (and remind them)

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mominindianapolis
1 hour ago, Mazurka said:

My DH is not doing any college research, but I've already told him he's in charge of the FAFSA.  We're kind of a divide and conquer family, although I hope for more input from him when Ben starts researching schools, because my DH is an engineer and has even recruited at colleges , including one of the colleges that Ben is going to consider. 

Will hasn't done any research because he already decided he wants to go to the community college, and as far as he's concerned, that's a done deal.  What he hasn't considered is that there are more options than just one, and that he needs to start thinking a bit about what kinds of specific majors he's interested in.  So that is what his job will be this spring.  To do some career research.  I'm hoping his scoutmaster can help him with this, too.   I don't think he needs to pick one thing, but to kind of start the process of narrowing his focus.  Which is hard for someone who is interested in everything.

 

I haven't contacted any schools yet because I'm just in the beginning stages of the process, which is why I came here for advice first.  Based on this thread, I've made a mental list of things I need to do, and I will be putting those to paper soon. 

I know we have talked on and off about college over the years so I just wanted to be ask in case there was something I hadn't thought about or considered for this last go-round with college for us. With so many things in our lives having changed recently, things for dd look much different than for ds. I have to remember some days that that's okay. So little is as "life or death" as we often instinctively think it is. 

I usually use the forums or fb as a supplement/resource after I talk directly to professionals so it's just a difference in approach I think. :)

It will be fun to find out what Will decides to do.

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Mazurka
46 minutes ago, Bendxap said:

That would be nice! My dentist fussed about making one visit for the crown and root canal but when I told him it takes me an hour driving each way, he was more amenable to the idea.

I'd love to have the preview of the original post and made the time and date it was made. I guess we can dream! (and remind them)

I just made a new discovery while reading your post.   If you click on the darker gray part of a quote, the words disappear, and only the user name and time shows up.  I'm going to try it here and see if it really works.   OK.  It doesn't work if you're in editing mode, just if you are reading.  I guess the practical application would be that you could collapse the quoted words to better focus on the response.

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Merry
2 hours ago, Mazurka said:

I just made a new discovery while reading your post.   If you click on the darker gray part of a quote, the words disappear, and only the user name and time shows up.  I'm going to try it here and see if it really works.   OK.  It doesn't work if you're in editing mode, just if you are reading.  I guess the practical application would be that you could collapse the quoted words to better focus on the response.

Oh, I never noticed that before! There is an arrow to the left of the time/name in that darker gray strip when you are reading, showing that it will do this--I just never noticed! We're getting all techy and advanced now!

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Mazurka
37 minutes ago, Merry said:

We're getting all techy and advanced now!

It's kind of amazing after all of this time on the "new" forums.

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texasmomtothree
On 2/4/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mazurka said:

This is going to be a long post, much longer than I usually do.  But I don't know how else to share the necessary background info.  

I really don't relish this guidance counseling role.  I feel inadequate and unprepared.   So if anyone can offer me some advice, I'd surely appreciate it.  The advice is for my son, Will, who is doing an extra year of high school to allow for a bit of maturing. In the following post I'm also going to share Will's Life Statement that he had to prepare for his Eagle application, because that also gives insight into what his future hopes and dreams are. He'll probably take some CC during his last year in high school, which will start this fall.  He is fairly certain he wants to go into some field in Biology, but doesn't know exactly what.   He wants to go to Community College for two years and transfer.  This is fairly easy in NC if a student takes the designated courses for an Associates Degree in Arts or an Associates Degree in Science.  There is also an Associates Degree in engineering, which allows a student to transfer straight into an engineering program.  Now, with all of these programs, there is a caveat -- students have to earn a certain grade point average (I'm not worried about this), and there is no guarantee that you'll get into the specific state school you want, just that you'll get into one of them.  That last part worries me a bit, because it seems like they could funnel you into one of the schools with a not-so-great reputation.  Now, I've talked with a CC teacher from our previous scout troop, and he said most of the state schools love the CC transfer students, because they have a proven track record, and when they transfer in their junior year, there are many students who started at the 4 years who are dropping out.  So maybe there is not a lot to worry about there.  However, I worry a bit about the particular field that Will wants to go into, because Biology often entails research or assisting with research, even as an undergrad, or so I've been told.  I don't know if this is true; it seems odd to require research for an undergrad degree.  However, most people who go into a field in Biology go on to get a Masters or even a Ph.d.   I'm honestly not sure that Will has it in him to do that.  I don't want to cut him down, because he's smart enough to do it, but he has some serious deficiencies with organization and follow through.

Anyhow, I found this great 2-year Biotechnology Degree at one of the semi-local community colleges.  It is a very full program, with what I would call some serious course-work, and it's 2 years long, including summers.  The problem?  It's an AAS degree, or an an Associates in Applied Science, which means the program is not intended as a transfer program, but rather a program to lead into a job -- the last semester actually includes an internship at a local company.   Could it transfer on to a university?  I don't know, I'd have to ask, but that is not the purpose of the program.  Here is a link to the program, just so you can see what it is.  The courses actually sound more typical of a 4-year degree, without the filler courses like social studies, languages, soft sciences, etc. It sounds like a fairly rigorous program.  Click on the course schedule to see the actual coursework.  For some reason I can't link the coursework directly.

https://www.alamancecc.edu/health-and-public-services-site/biotechnology/

I imagine he could get a degree like that, work a few years, and maybe even go back to college on the company dime.  But it would be a gamble.  And sometimes once you start working, it is hard to go back to college.  I read Will what the degree would allow him to do, which is as follows: "The curriculum objectives are designed to prepare graduates to serve as research assistants and technicians in laboratory and industrial settings and as quality control/quality assurance technicians."  He replied that he doesn't want to be an assistant, that he wants to be doing the research himself. :-). Well, I appreciate hearing that, but as a mom, I worry about a degree in Biology and finding a job if one doesn't go on to an advanced degree.  Everything I read says you pretty much need an advanced degree.   I was talking with our Scoutmaster a little bit about this, and he thinks it would be best for Will to do the regular Associate Degree in Science and then transfer to a university, rather than doing the Applied Science program and see what happens.  This scoutmaster has run a number of labs himself and has made some pretty major discoveries in the medical field, and I value his advice.  He came right out and said it can be hard to find a job with a 4-year degree in Biology, but he didn't seem to think it was impossible.  He said we just have to help Will find the right program. (And I ask myself, how?!!)  Anyhow, I know he will help us if needed.  He's offered to write recommendations if we need them.  And he's very complimentary of Will's knowledge in biological topics.  I asked him directly if he was just being nice or if he thinks Will really knows what he's talking about.  :-)   This scoutmaster also knows Will's limitations.  He knows he has a bit of a maturity problem, and some issues with socialization.  (Believe me, this is not because of homeschooling -- he's been this way since pre-school.) However, the Scoutmaster has also seen Will grow and mature, and I think he feels Will could do well in a biology-related field.  Will has a good reputation among several of the scout leaders (quite a few with advanced degrees) for his interest in plants and animals and really knowing a lot about them.  If I were ever to be lost in the wilderness, I'd probably want Will along.  :-) 

Anyhow, I know this is long.  I'm trying to give you a picture of his skills and talents.  If he were more mature and a diligent student, I would definitely want him to go directly to a 4-year school because of the normal progression in a biology-related field.  I really hate that his maturity is not on par with his brain.   And I worry that he'll go to a 4 year school, have spent that time and money, and then won't have a decent job if he is unable to continue his education to get an advanced degree.  That is why I like that AAS program I linked above.  I totally think he could do that and excel, and then he'd have something to fall back on if he couldn't hack it with an advanced biology degree.   But then, what if he misses out on a greater opportunity with an advanced degree in biology?   I will admit, I wish his love weren't biology.  I wish it were chemistry, or physics, because they are more-employable.  Biology is one of the least paid fields in science.  I can't even think of any careers in biology that require only a 4-year degree.  Maybe a park ranger? Or a lab assistant, in which case the AAS would take less time and cost less money.  Let me just say, it is hard having a smart kid who has the brain-power but not necessarily the maturity and work ethic.

Anyhow, I'm stumped.  I'm not sure what to recommend for him.  He's 18.  We held him back in high school, turning his 10th grade year into his freshman year in order to give him an extra year to mature.  He seems to think he won't have any problem with higher education, and maybe he won't.  He plans on taking a course or two at the local community college starting next fall, and I guess that will give us a better idea.  But we've got to think beyond that now -- I don't think it's prudent to wait to see how that works out.  And if he would decide to do the AAS degree, he should probably take courses at that CC instead of the one most local.  And I also worry, if he does the basic Associates of Science degree, will that end up working against him if he wants to go on to graduate school?  I really don't think it's as simple as it sounds, to get an associates in science and then transfer right into a biology program, and not be behind compared to the other students. Many students take coursework for their degree before their junior year.  I somehow had thought that community colleges would be a little more diversified than just associates in arts or associates in science.  I thought they would have more tailored classes depending on specific interest, but apparently it is sort of a one-size-fits all product.  The engineering option sounds great for Ben, because it is truly targeted into the engineering field, but the other associates degrees don't seem to be.

If you have any advice for me or Will, I would appreciate it.  If not, well, I guess typing this out has at least helped me organize my thoughts a bit. 

 

Try not to stress about figuring it out right now. He has another year before he has to make these decisions. And even then he could apply to a variety of options but he doesn't have to commit until really close to the time he would be going. Right now focus on what is required to get him dual enrolled in the fall. There might be deadlines this spring to get that done for the fall. See how his first semester goes at the community college with his dual enrollment classes and that might give you more direction on whether he needs to continue with that route under more direct supervision or if he is ready to go off to a university without you there to provide direction. 

There was no doubt in either my or my husband's mind that our oldest was not mature enough to succeed in college on his own this year. He is needing lots of external structure and guidance but he is constantly making steps forward and he is hoping to move into the dorm next year. And he made a 4.0 his first semester! There are some weeks where I think he is getting this whole college student down and then there are some weeks where I want to throw my hands up in the air and give up on him! If we didn't have free tuition at the university my husband works at, my ds would definitely have gone to community college. Unless he is looking to get into a highly competitive university, I think it is not too difficult to transfer from community college to a 4 year college. If he has an idea which university he would like to attend you can always look for acceptance rates to get an idea of how hard it is to get into and also they usually have an area on their website where they show which specific classes from the local community colleges transfer to their specific degrees so you don't waste too many hours. There are a lot of basics required for any degree so just focus on those for now. He has time to figure out his major even after he starts college.

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tess in the burbs

I only read the first post but I wanted to chime in and I hope I'm not repeating info or you already figured out some plan and reading my response wastes your time LOL

I went to college in NC.  I actually attended 3 colleges.  I did 2.5 years at one, transferred to another for 1 semester(realized the program I wanted was in a 3 year wait so I left), and then finished up at another college.  Eventually.  (I took a year off to travel from start to finish)   As an undergraduate who earned my BS from a NC college and saw other college programs I can tell you that a full blown research project isn't happening.   What was the requirement and you could easily go hang out in the bookstore of any of the colleges an look through the department courses to verify if it isn't online is this:   Senior Thesis or Senior Research   The Thesis is a class you take.  You write a thesis related to the topic of the Professor's choice(usually their own study).  So half the semester is small group presentations and the last assignment is your thesis while no one else can have the same topic.  The Senior Research is your kid working with a professor on their research.  It's my understanding you are to come up with some similar thesis related to their research so your research benefits their research.  ;-)  However, I know a bright young man whose hypothesis didn't turn out to be what he thought, it derailed the professor's research, and she failed him for Sr Research, which meant he didn't graduate that spring and had to go do another semester of Senior Thesis or Research and graduated in the fall.  It was a big deal and I didn't see any friends signing up for research that year!    I will say that I took a class with this said professor.  We did her grunt work for research for her under the guise of a class.  I'd say 1/4 was book reading on our own and tests for her, but the rest of the time was trying to replicated DNA for her research and she didn't like it when we didn't get results she expected.  But it wasn't our own research idea.  I would suspect the higher tier NC schools may now require individual research if they have the lab funds, but if not, they can't require all undergraduate Biology students to do research b/c who would buy the supplies?  And how do you allocate lab time?  

Just wanted to share my experience.  Do look into the smaller schools in the UNC system.  Many have partnered with the bigger schools and do live streaming classes from the top tier school into the lessor school as part of their program and when you graduate your degree actually shows both colleges on the diploma!  So you can be in the lessor school getting the top tier education in a smaller environment for less money.  

If you want more details on my experience send me a message.   I have a Biology degree and after my multiple college experience in NC have seen some interesting things among the different schools.  If it matters, I started as a Chem major at a top tier school and moved to Zoology while there.  Very enlightening how different departments work in regards to students who are those majors.  I have lots  to share about that if you want. 

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tess in the burbs

Oh, my second comment was about the 2 year degree.  If it leads to a well paying job and he wants to do it, do it.  Colleges would accept it all.  In fact, depending on the new major chosen, he might not need much of anything in that major if they take the credits.  Which sounds like the CC and UNC schools have a better agreement now.  I know that if he doesn't take the majority for a major at a school they won't issue a degree.  Based on the link you sent he might need to actually change the intended degree to be slightly different than that focus just to get the major classes in.  It looks like a solid program!!!  

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mamatoseven
1 hour ago, texasmomtothree said:

Try not to stress about figuring it out right now. He has another year before he has to make these decisions. And even then he could apply to a variety of options but he doesn't have to commit until really close to the time he would be going. Right now focus on what is required to get him dual enrolled in the fall. There might be deadlines this spring to get that done for the fall. See how his first semester goes at the community college with his dual enrollment classes and that might give you more direction on whether he needs to continue with that route under more direct supervision or if he is ready to go off to a university without you there to provide direction. 

There was no doubt in either my or my husband's mind that our oldest was not mature enough to succeed in college on his own this year. He is needing lots of external structure and guidance but he is constantly making steps forward and he is hoping to move into the dorm next year. And he made a 4.0 his first semester! There are some weeks where I think he is getting this whole college student down and then there are some weeks where I want to throw my hands up in the air and give up on him! If we didn't have free tuition at the university my husband works at, my ds would definitely have gone to community college. Unless he is looking to get into a highly competitive university, I think it is not too difficult to transfer from community college to a 4 year college. If he has an idea which university he would like to attend you can always look for acceptance rates to get an idea of how hard it is to get into and also they usually have an area on their website where they show which specific classes from the local community colleges transfer to their specific degrees so you don't waste too many hours. There are a lot of basics required for any degree so just focus on those for now. He has time to figure out his major even after he starts college.

Yes! Just reading and gleaning from everyone.  Btw, @texasmomtothree my hubby taught at UIW several years ago for a semester. :)

We knew my oldest needed more time at home.  He sounds so similar to your son, Susan.  He is doing an architecture degree at our local CC and aiming to transfer to University.  I think it will give him time to get some of this college stuff worked out.  I can already see a difference in his organization from last semester to this semester!  He now knows that he can't get behind with these projects in architecture.  

It sounds like your guy is really self motivated!  My sister lives in CH--what a great area for higher education!!

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Gilead

Based on our CC experience here in CA:

Going to the appt. with your student is find if they're a minor. Eyebrows will be raised if they are over 18. But you can prep him with a list of questions. And at our CC, going to counseling every semester gets you priority registration, so I made them go. High school students can do this, too, so you can ask more questions as they come up.

Re. the "how to succeed @ CC" class, this was a great thing for my kids. DS' first class (age 16, his only class that semester) included reading a syllabus and notetaking as well as experience using the school's online portal, which is used for school messages and submitting homework of all kinds. Other "counseling" classes my kids benefitted from have included career guidance and work experience.

My son actually went f/t three years to CC and finished an AA and a certificate before transferring. He needed 2.5 years because of some exploratory classes he took that weren't on the transfer list. The extra .5 year was because he applied to transfer in the spring and the state U was already full for the year. He got in just fine the next fall.

For your son it sounds likely that participation in interest-related clubs and internships will be important. My ds missed out on a lot of these because his job was F/Sat/Sun, just when the clubs that interested him were meeting. But ds got some great mentoring from profs in his field of interest...I bet your son could find that, too, plus it sounds like he already has some great experts in his life. Both my kids really learned to go talk to their professors and take advantage of the tutoring center on campus.

We are glad we took the CC entry/placement test early, as one of my kids restudied, took it again, and placed higher in math.

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Mazurka
14 hours ago, texasmomtothree said:

Try not to stress about figuring it out right now. He has another year before he has to make these decisions. And even then he could apply to a variety of options but he doesn't have to commit until really close to the time he would be going. Right now focus on what is required to get him dual enrolled in the fall. There might be deadlines this spring to get that done for the fall. See how his first semester goes at the community college with his dual enrollment classes and that might give you more direction on whether he needs to continue with that route under more direct supervision or if he is ready to go off to a university without you there to provide direction. 

Yes, I think getting things in order for next semester is the first thing we'll try to tackle.  And I'm going to look for one of those "How to succeed in college classes." Maybe that and one other course his first semester, while he's still finishing up his homeschooling.   Although I'm not planning on doing a whole lot of homeschooling with him after this year.  While he will be listed as a "senior" next year, he is mostly going to be working on finishing things up, with 1 or maybe only 2 other courses. 

 

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There was no doubt in either my or my husband's mind that our oldest was not mature enough to succeed in college on his own this year. He is needing lots of external structure and guidance but he is constantly making steps forward and he is hoping to move into the dorm next year. And he made a 4.0 his first semester! There are some weeks where I think he is getting this whole college student down and then there are some weeks where I want to throw my hands up in the air and give up on him!

It's a lot of 2 steps forwards and one step back.  Yesterday I had one of those moments where I was so excited that he was "getting it."  He did a lovely job with written answers to some economics questions.  It looked like good, high-school level work, which has been a struggle for him -- writing out answers, that is.  And then I looked at another subject, where he conveniently just  forgot to do some of the problems....

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If we didn't have free tuition at the university my husband works at, my ds would definitely have gone to community college. Unless he is looking to get into a highly competitive university, I think it is not too difficult to transfer from community college to a 4 year college. If he has an idea which university he would like to attend you can always look for acceptance rates to get an idea of how hard it is to get into and also they usually have an area on their website where they show which specific classes from the local community colleges transfer to their specific degrees so you don't waste too many hours. There are a lot of basics required for any degree so just focus on those for now. He has time to figure out his major even after he starts college.

If he does the community college transfer to a 4 year program, he will probably have to stick with a school in the state system, where all of his credits will transfer.  That is the one bummer about the community college option.  I mean, sure, he could probably transfer to some private schools, but they would be less likely to accept all of his credits, even though they might accept some.  With the CC, if the student is in one of the dedicated transfer programs and is careful what he or she takes, they are all supposed to transfer to a state school.

Edited by Mazurka

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Mazurka
14 hours ago, tess in the burbs said:

I only read the first post but I wanted to chime in and I hope I'm not repeating info or you already figured out some plan and reading my response wastes your time LOL

I went to college in NC.  I actually attended 3 colleges.  I did 2.5 years at one, transferred to another for 1 semester(realized the program I wanted was in a 3 year wait so I left), and then finished up at another college.  Eventually.  (I took a year off to travel from start to finish)   As an undergraduate who earned my BS from a NC college and saw other college programs I can tell you that a full blown research project isn't happening.   What was the requirement and you could easily go hang out in the bookstore of any of the colleges an look through the department courses to verify if it isn't online is this:   Senior Thesis or Senior Research   The Thesis is a class you take.  You write a thesis related to the topic of the Professor's choice(usually their own study).  So half the semester is small group presentations and the last assignment is your thesis while no one else can have the same topic.  The Senior Research is your kid working with a professor on their research.  It's my understanding you are to come up with some similar thesis related to their research so your research benefits their research.  ;-)  However, I know a bright young man whose hypothesis didn't turn out to be what he thought, it derailed the professor's research, and she failed him for Sr Research, which meant he didn't graduate that spring and had to go do another semester of Senior Thesis or Research and graduated in the fall.  It was a big deal and I didn't see any friends signing up for research that year!    I will say that I took a class with this said professor.  We did her grunt work for research for her under the guise of a class.  I'd say 1/4 was book reading on our own and tests for her, but the rest of the time was trying to replicated DNA for her research and she didn't like it when we didn't get results she expected.  But it wasn't our own research idea.  I would suspect the higher tier NC schools may now require individual research if they have the lab funds, but if not, they can't require all undergraduate Biology students to do research b/c who would buy the supplies?  And how do you allocate lab time?  

Just wanted to share my experience.  Do look into the smaller schools in the UNC system.  Many have partnered with the bigger schools and do live streaming classes from the top tier school into the lessor school as part of their program and when you graduate your degree actually shows both colleges on the diploma!  So you can be in the lessor school getting the top tier education in a smaller environment for less money.  

If you want more details on my experience send me a message.   I have a Biology degree and after my multiple college experience in NC have seen some interesting things among the different schools.  If it matters, I started as a Chem major at a top tier school and moved to Zoology while there.  Very enlightening how different departments work in regards to students who are those majors.  I have lots  to share about that if you want. 

Thanks for your input, Tess.  I appreciate hearing about your experience, especially about the difficult professor. I guess there are always those types. 

What's interesting about quite a few of the colleges in the North Carolina system, is that they weren't considered particularly desirable schools when I was a student, but now they are quite desirable and even hard to get into.  It's amazing the difference 35 years will make, lol.  Although I always wonder why NC hasn't added more schools to the system, especially with the rapid rate at which the state's population is growing.  NC keeps adding on to the existing schools, and I think that's a shame.  I think it would be nice if they would add a school in some new locales, but instead, it's just build, build, build on existing campuses.  Oh well, that would be a topic for a different thread.  

I'll PM you!

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Mazurka
13 hours ago, mamatoseven said:

Yes! Just reading and gleaning from everyone.  Btw, @texasmomtothree my hubby taught at UIW several years ago for a semester. :)

We knew my oldest needed more time at home.  He sounds so similar to your son, Susan.  He is doing an architecture degree at our local CC and aiming to transfer to University.  I think it will give him time to get some of this college stuff worked out.  I can already see a difference in his organization from last semester to this semester!  He now knows that he can't get behind with these projects in architecture.  

It sounds like your guy is really self motivated!  My sister lives in CH--what a great area for higher education!!

If you ever come to visit your sis, let me know and we can have a meet-up! 

I do see my son making improvements, but really, it seems so slow at times.   I am really working at being more encouraging, though, instead of nagging all the time, lol. 

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texasmomtothree
21 hours ago, mamatoseven said:

Yes! Just reading and gleaning from everyone.  Btw, @texasmomtothree my hubby taught at UIW several years ago for a semester. :)

We knew my oldest needed more time at home.  He sounds so similar to your son, Susan.  He is doing an architecture degree at our local CC and aiming to transfer to University.  I think it will give him time to get some of this college stuff worked out.  I can already see a difference in his organization from last semester to this semester!  He now knows that he can't get behind with these projects in architecture.  

It sounds like your guy is really self motivated!  My sister lives in CH--what a great area for higher education!!

Cool! What did he teach?

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HannahB
10 hours ago, Mazurka said:

 

If he does the community college transfer to a 4 year program, he will probably have to stick with a school in the state system, where all of his credits will transfer.  That is the one bummer about the community college option.  I mean, sure, he could probably transfer to some private schools, but they would be less likely to accept all of his credits, even though they might accept some.  With the CC, if the student is in one of the dedicated transfer programs and is careful what he or she takes, they are all supposed to transfer to a state school.

In my experience this isn't necessarily true. Dd took 24 credits at CC in high school and every single one transferred to her private school (not even in the same state).. From what I've heard from other parents whose kids went to our CC this isn't unusual.  

So so while it's not guaranteed, don't rule out private schools without checking out his options. 

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Merry
16 hours ago, Mazurka said:

If he does the community college transfer to a 4 year program, he will probably have to stick with a school in the state system, where all of his credits will transfer.  That is the one bummer about the community college option.  I mean, sure, he could probably transfer to some private schools, but they would be less likely to accept all of his credits, even though they might accept some.  With the CC, if the student is in one of the dedicated transfer programs and is careful what he or she takes, they are all supposed to transfer to a state school.

 

5 hours ago, HannahB said:

In my experience this isn't necessarily true. Dd took 24 credits at CC in high school and every single one transferred to her private school (not even in the same state).. From what I've heard from other parents whose kids went to our CC this isn't unusual.  

So so while it's not guaranteed, don't rule out private schools without checking out his options. 

I was just going to say this too. If there is a particular school he ends up interested in, it's worth it to see if they will accept the credits. You may be surprised. 

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HannahB
4 hours ago, Merry said:

 

I was just going to say this too. If there is a particular school he ends up interested in, it's worth it to see if they will accept the credits. You may be surprised. 

They even took the classes for which they don't have an equivalent class. Those classes just counted as electives and still go,toward her total credit count for graduation. 

 

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