home4learning

Getting into college without dual enrollment, AP or CLEP?

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home4learning

So it seems like everyone is pursuing one or more of the above options. I love the idea of them and am looking into all of it. But it makes my head spin a little. And it all seems so stressful.

 

If you have kids who are, in general, good workers but aren’t really academically driven and get stressed out by heavy workloads and deadlines - are these options worth pursuing?

 

With dual enrollment the courses are crammed into 16 weeks instead of 30 or more. I wonder about my child’s ability to juggle one or more dual courses alongside all of her other year long work.

 

With AP they all say 8-10 hours of work per week, plus you have to pass the exam.

 

And CLEP seems to involve doing the coursework all year, then studying for a comprehensive exam. I wanted my DD to do this at the end of her 9th grade year following taking Biology. She was so stressed at the prospect of such a big test that she couldn’t do it.

 

I love the idea of having at least one or two, possibly three courses on their high school transcript that show they are capable of higher level work. Plus I feel practicing for it now could help it feel less daunting when they do get to college. But I also feel one benefit of homeschooling is to keep learning enjoyable and not such a chore. When the deadlines are tight and workload is heavy, it can be hard to enjoy the process.

 

Just wanting thoughts and experiences with these types of classes for the average learner. I don’t want to sell my kids short and not challenge them but I also don’t want to burn them out.

 

Thoughts?

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Countrymom9

I'm not in the least being snarky when I ask: do your "average learners" have a calling that requires four-year college? We have one who didn't, have had at least one other in the past. He didn't go to college till his employer paid for cc much later (he's a police sergeant), and dd17 is planning to take a welding course at cc next year, will probably start at $35,000 at age 19. There's a huge demand for welders, carpenters, HVAC...all the trades. 

That's not to say at all that the average learner can't go to college and do well, and yes, those of ours (there have been several) who went to four-year college right our of high school went without the benefit of dual enrollment, AP classes, or CLEP. The one of ours who used lots of CLEP teests did it bc she went to college nontraditionally while working full-time.

There are lots of good educational paths and not all of them require high schoolers to focus on college classes early, or even at all.

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SewWhat?

For my son dual credit was a class at the local CC. One regular semester, not crammed as you said. I don't understand your statement about 30w crammed into 16w.

No experience with AP.

My son did a CLEP for Intro to Sociology. The only studying he did for it was on instantcert.com for 2mo. Was only going to be 1mo but I forgot to stop the autobill so it was 2mo. He passed. So, CLEP doesn't have to be a whole year of stress for one test. He'd never even studied any Sociology before, so for a kid who has studied it some the instantcert site would be perfect for a refresher. 

None of it has to be stressful.

Then again, you also don't have to do it at all. Daughter was accepted by the colleges she applied to without any of the above. She just didn't want to do any of it.

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home4learning
28 minutes ago, Countrymom9 said:

I'm not in the least being snarky when I ask: do your "average learners" have a calling that requires four-year college?

Part of why I am asking is because these options didn't seem quite so prevalent back in the day when I went to college.  I was a very good student.  Driven but not crazy smart.  I was in the top 10% of my class, and honestly I don't know how other than that I was willing to do the work and put out effort.  I was not a straight A student.  Never was.  Had no advanced classes in high school that I can remember and was admitted to Wheaton College (after being on the waiting list).  My SAT/ACT scores were good but not phenomenal. 

DH was an average student.  He didn't care much about school but did go to college.  He finished in 5 years, primarily due to a transfer he made after starting at the school his parents wanted him at (he hated it), doing some Community College work and then finally transferring to the school he graduated from.  He stuck it out and got his degree and has a great job because of it.

I guess I'd like to hear from parents whose students have taken these types of classes - was it worth it?  How much extra added stress did these courses create for your child?  Were they glad they took them?  Did it just seem like any other class but with more assignments?  Was time management harder after adding in these classes and did it prevent you from fitting in other quality of life activities like time with friends, a job, time for church/ministry activities?

I'm also asking because it wasn't like this years ago.  Your response makes me think that kids that don't pursue these options in high school are likely not college material.  It's this strange warped image I am getting.  Hearing stories from universities that the kids coming in aren't prepared for college level work (my brother works at a university).  That today's BA is really more like a glorified high school diploma and the MA is the new BA.  Well, which is it?  Are kids really not prepared, even with the plethora of AP, CLEP and Dual enrollment flying around?  Or are only the ones who pursue that level of work in the high school years truly prepared for college.  Does that make sense?

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home4learning
16 minutes ago, SewWhat? said:

For my son dual credit was a class at the local CC. One regular semester, not crammed as you said. I don't understand your statement about 30w crammed into 16w.

No experience with AP.

My son did a CLEP for Intro to Sociology. The only studying he did for it was on instantcert.com for 2mo. Was only going to be 1mo but I forgot to stop the autobill so it was 2mo. He passed. So, CLEP doesn't have to be a whole year of stress for one test. He'd never even studied any Sociology before, so for a kid who has studied it some the instantcert site would be perfect for a refresher. 

None of it has to be stressful.

Then again, you also don't have to do it at all. Daughter was accepted by the colleges she applied to without any of the above. She just didn't want to do any of it.

Thank you! 

Our local CC and many of the dual enrollment options in our area offer college credit for a one semester course.  So, for instance, I was looking at having DD take French I at the local CC. She's had 2 years of Spanish but needs an elective and has always wanted to learn French so I decided to look into it as a dual credit option.  The French I class runs from August to December.  That's it.  3 credits are awarded, which would equal 1 high school credit.  This is what I mean by a year's worth of work being done in half the time.

One of the local public schools here deliberately runs their classes like this.  They call it block scheduling.  The kids only have 3-4 classes each semester and are done with that credit at the semester break.  A friend of mine sent her kids there and one of her concerns was that her son was entering and would have no math in the fall as they scheduled his math class in the spring and she worried he'd forget all he had learned before by the time the math class started in January/February.  This school chooses to do it this way to mimick college courses.  They are ranked pretty high in our state.  My oldest daughter's school ranks pretty high as well but lower than this one.  She takes 7 courses that run for the full year.  I'm not sure if the other school's AP courses are full year or semester long . . . maybe their students can only take AP in the spring since the exams are in May.

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SewWhat?
14 minutes ago, home4learning said:

 

I guess I'd like to hear from parents whose students have taken these types of classes - was it worth it?  How much extra added stress did these courses create for your child?  Were they glad they took them?  Did it just seem like any other class but with more assignments?  Was time management harder after adding in these classes and did it prevent you from fitting in other quality of life activities like time with friends, a job, time for church/ministry activities?

My son's dual enrollment class in 11th grade at the local CC was just like any other class. He went I think 3d/w for a semester and earned the credits and a B+. He hated the class, Interpersonal Communication. He said more than once there were people there who didn't want to  be and said it made the class horrible for him. I told him you'll have people who don't want to be there in ALL classes! He was the homeschooler who thought everyone should love learning... LOL He soon found how how wrong he was when he went to college after graduation.

Your response makes me think that kids that don't pursue these options in high school are likely not college material.  It's this strange warped image I am getting.  Hearing stories from universities that the kids coming in aren't prepared for college level work (my brother works at a university).  That today's BA is really more like a glorified high school diploma and the MA is the new BA.  Well, which is it?  Are kids really not prepared, even with the plethora of AP, CLEP and Dual enrollment flying around?  Or are only the ones who pursue that level of work in the high school years truly prepared for college.  Does that make sense?

I think the average kid CAN go to college, as long as they are actually interested in pursuing the degree. SSSOOOOO many parents force their kids into college who do NOT want to be there! They don't try and it doesn't work out in the end. I do not think it's all about CLEPs, AP and dual enrollment. Kids who are motivated in college can do perfectly fine without any of it, as long as they actually want to be there and are trying.

I think part of the kids not thriving is that so many today got by in school because they had so many tries to complete the work. Plus, so many kids today think the world needs to be handed to them on a platter. Selfish entitled kids. Seeing it WAY too often. Nothing to do with CLEPs, etc.

I really really believe that a kid who WANTS to succeed and put in the work will do just fine.

Also, a student HAS to be willing to ask for help when needed. Every college we've visited made a strong focus on how much help is available. In the library there are Work Study kids just waiting around for someone to help. There are counselors if you're having issues, etc. If you never ask for help you won't get it.

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SewWhat?
14 minutes ago, home4learning said:

Thank you! 

Our local CC and many of the dual enrollment options in our area offer college credit for a one semester course.  So, for instance, I was looking at having DD take French I at the local CC. She's had 2 years of Spanish but needs an elective and has always wanted to learn French so I decided to look into it as a dual credit option.  The French I class runs from August to December.  That's it.  3 credits are awarded, which would equal 1 high school credit.  This is what I mean by a year's worth of work being done in half the time.

One of the local public schools here deliberately runs their classes like this.  They call it block scheduling.  The kids only have 3-4 classes each semester and are done with that credit at the semester break.  A friend of mine sent her kids there and one of her concerns was that her son was entering and would have no math in the fall as they scheduled his math class in the spring and she worried he'd forget all he had learned before by the time the math class started in January/February.  This school chooses to do it this way to mimick college courses.  They are ranked pretty high in our state.  My oldest daughter's school ranks pretty high as well but lower than this one.  She takes 7 courses that run for the full year.  I'm not sure if the other school's AP courses are full year or semester long . . . maybe their students can only take AP in the spring since the exams are in May.

French 1 being one semester is not crammed. It's normal. If you went to Indiana University (I just looked so I could see if I was thinking correctly) first year you'd be in Elementary French 1 first semester and elem FR 2 2nd semester. 2nd year would be French 1 first semester, French 2 second. Then on to conversational French in  3rd year, etc.

I have heard of block scheduling for high school. I've never seen a college run on that sort of schedule. If you go to college you take more than 4 classes a semester.

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home4learning
14 minutes ago, SewWhat? said:

I think the average kid CAN go to college, as long as they are actually interested in pursuing the degree. SSSOOOOO many parents force their kids into college who do NOT want to be there! They don't try and it doesn't work out in the end. I do not think it's all about CLEPs, AP and dual enrollment. Kids who are motivated in college can do perfectly fine without any of it, as long as they actually want to be there and are trying.

I think part of the kids not thriving is that so many today got by in school because they had so many tries to complete the work. Plus, so many kids today think the world needs to be handed to them on a platter. Selfish entitled kids. Seeing it WAY too often. Nothing to do with CLEPs, etc.

I really really believe that a kid who WANTS to succeed and put in the work will do just fine.

Also, a student HAS to be willing to ask for help when needed. Every college we've visited made a strong focus on how much help is available. In the library there are Work Study kids just waiting around for someone to help. There are counselors if you're having issues, etc. If you never ask for help you won't get it.

Thank you for this perspective as well . . . I have a plan for DD that I know she can handle.  I'm just trying to sort out her English for the next two years.  On the one hand, it would be nice if she could earn her college credit in English and be able to skip it when she gets to college (she's more science oriented).  On the other hand, why overload her now with a subject she doesn't need to be stressed by just to lighten her load later?  The current plan includes one AP course her senior year. 

I could place her in AP English Language this year and AP English Literature, which seems overkill to me.  I like the idea of doing AP Psych after hearing a teacher mention that many colleges require Psych as a gen ed and if they attend a secular school they will get a secular viewpoint.  But my oldest is taking AP Psych at the local public school and finding it very hard.  She's struggling to get her A in it and almost wishes she didn't take it. (She didn't like any of the other electives and thought Psych would be fun.  At least she likes the teacher.  And she isn't getting a Christian worldview since she's at the public school, but I do have her experience to draw from a little).

I'm just trying to consider if it's worth putting her in the higher classes because she probably *CAN*.  But does she *NEED* to?  If all she ends up with is one AP credit at the end of her high school years, I guess that's okay.  She wants to do rescue, rehab, release and will likely pursue some kind of Biology, Conservation or Zoology degree.  And in the end it's her volunteer experience and internships that will likely propel her into the work she wants to do more than anything else.

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home4learning
14 minutes ago, SewWhat? said:

French 1 being one semester is not crammed. It's normal. If you went to Indiana University (I just looked so I could see if I was thinking correctly) first year you'd be in Elementary French 1 first semester and elem FR 2 2nd semester. 2nd year would be French 1 first semester, French 2 second. Then on to conversational French in  3rd year, etc.

I have heard of block scheduling for high school. I've never seen a college run on that sort of schedule. If you go to college you take more than 4 classes a semester.

So if your son's other courses at home ran for the entire year, did it feel like too much to take a course that just lasted a semester?  Was the workload weighted toward that one college course?  This is my biggest concern for her - along with can we fit running to and from the college into our routine. 

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Bendxap

Our boys took AP classes their senior year at the missionary kids school, not because they wanted AP but because that was all that was offered in the classes they needed. (It's a very small school. Younger's graduating class was 10, which was huge for the school.) Since AP was their only choice, I don't think they felt the work load was any worse than anything else at the school. (The biggest things were the 20+ min commute, the waiting around for everyone else, etc.) The AP classes went all year.

Older's AP classes did help him graduate a year early from college.

Younger had three AP classes, Spanish AP didn't help him a bit because his college doesn't require a foreign language. Calc AP was a definite help but at the same time, when we went to orientation for his college, the head of the math department said to the parents, "Don't worry if your student has to take Algebra 2 again." This to parents of prospective engineering students!

I think that the English Lit AP did get him out of one course so he took another elective in its place.

He graduates in May and as we were talking about what things he'll be involved in right before graduation (when we'll be there), he said he's not going to the Honors thing because his GPA isn't high enough to graduate with honors. (Older did.) I'm just happy that he's graduating! He had originally planned on going the route that Countrymom9 comments in her post partly because he didn't want to spend four more years in school. (He's really intelligent, just doesn't like studying that much. He's more of a hands-on, let's-do-it guy.) And he has an excellent job lined up for after graduation.

I agree with Rebecca, the kid has to *want* to go. Otherwise you and/or he will be accumulating a lot of debt for nothing. Our boys did everything from choosing colleges to apply, filling out their applications, and everything from then on. We are proud of how well they've done but it's because *they* have wanted to do it.

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Debbie in Bailey

Yes, kids can go to college without CLEP, AP, or dual enrollment.  Lots of kids do. 

Those options are available for the student that is ready for them and would benefit from them.

You can take an AP test without taking an AP course.  My oldest did that - at the suggestion of the college he applied for - since he had coursework in high school.  He used test prep book to make sure he was familiar with the test. (he did no dual enrollment, no CLEP,  and no AP courses - just the test the school suggested).

You don't have to do a lot of extra study for CLEP.  It's good to get a prep book so you know what to expect.  But the idea is that a student's normal coursework can count for credit.  

The reality is that not all schools even accept CLEP, AP, or dual enrollment credit.  The school my son is graduating from in a few weeks gives no credit for AP, CLEP, or dual enrollment.  Now, their acceptance is so tight that if you don't have AP or dual enrollment, you probably won't make the cut.  But most schools are not like that.  The school my oldest went to did not give CLEP credit and only limited credit for AP or dual enrollment (and his was a public, state school).

Do what's best for your student.  We have primarily chosen dual enrollment as we have a local 4-year college right down the road and my two younger boys were ready for college level math and eager to try classroom learning.  My daughter will probably take dual enrollment courses next year because she, too, would prefer to work for someone else than for me. She wants the experience. We'll choose courses so she can manage the load.

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SewWhat?

 

24 minutes ago, home4learning said:

So if your son's other courses at home ran for the entire year, did it feel like too much to take a course that just lasted a semester?  Was the workload weighted toward that one college course?  This is my biggest concern for her - along with can we fit running to and from the college into our routine. 

I plan electives in semesters, so his dual enrollment was one of his electives for that semester. His 'speech' credit basically.

There are things that run full year, but lots of classes that are only one semester. 

No, it didn't weigh him down, because we planned it just as one of his courses.

14 minutes ago, Debbie in Bailey said:

 

You don't have to do a lot of extra study for CLEP.  It's good to get a prep book so you know what to expect.  But the idea is that a student's normal coursework can count for credit.  

We never got a book. He just used instantcert.com.

The reality is that not all schools even accept CLEP, AP, or dual enrollment credit.  The school my son is graduating from in a few weeks gives no credit for AP, CLEP, or dual enrollment.  Now, their acceptance is so tight that if you don't have AP or dual enrollment, you probably won't make the cut.  But most schools are not like that.  The school my oldest went to did not give CLEP credit and only limited credit for AP or dual enrollment (and his was a public, state school).

Do what's best for your student.  We have primarily chosen dual enrollment as we have a local 4-year college right down the road and my two younger boys were ready for college level math and eager to try classroom learning.  My daughter will probably take dual enrollment courses next year because she, too, would prefer to work for someone else than for me. She wants the experience. We'll choose courses so she can manage the load.

ABSOLUTELY look into what the colleges will accept!! If it's probably going to be a course needed in the major likely it won't be accepted. They like you to do the Major work at the school. My sil knows someone who didn't check and had her daughter CLEP for probably about 1/2 of what she thought she'd be taking in college. Since most of them were Major-necessary classes they didn't take most of them! So, money wasted for sure. ie, if your major is chemistry don't try to CLEP any chem courses, but English likely is ok. I think this person CLEPed a bunch of sociology, psychology and some other things, and her major was I think social work. So, they wanted her to take their soc/psy, etc courses.

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the geographer

Big Sis had none of the above and got into the colleges she wanted no problem. I had really wanted her to take at least one cc class before she graduated but she really, really didn't want to so in the end I didn't push it and it was fine. We also talked about taking some CLEP tests but after the accepted students day at the college she chose and talking with admissions she decided against that as well since there wouldn't be much benefit. She made the transition to college with no problems and will graduate next year.

Little Sis took two cc classes her senior year, Spanish I in the fall and college composition in the spring. I had planned for her to take the comp class and Spanish II but the class was full when we went to sign her up. Having the Spanish class done helped her, her college requires a foreign language up to the 201 level by either taking the classes or testing out at that level. So she's done after this spring. The comp class accomplished what I wanted in high school (the English credit) but it didn't help in college. She did get transfer credit but it didn't get her out of their requirements. There isn't a required freshman English class, it's part of a series all students are required to take; fall freshman year the class is focused on writing, in the spring it's focused on speech. Anyway, it was a good experience for her to have the cc classes to see how college classes worked.

One thing I told her was that those classes took priority over anything at home and her other activities. Her homework for them had to be finished first since those grades would be looked at by colleges and transfer. I'm not sure I would have felt the same way about an AP class though. Like Debbie said above you need to do what's best for your student. It doesn't matter what the rest of us do, look at your student's goals and figure out how to help them achieve those goals.

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Countrymom9
1 hour ago, home4learning said:

 

I guess I'd like to hear from parents whose students have taken these types of classes - was it worth it?  How much extra added stress did these courses create for your child?  Were they glad they took them?  Did it just seem like any other class but with more assignments?  Was time management harder after adding in these classes and did it prevent you from fitting in other quality of life activities like time with friends, a job, time for church/ministry activities?

I'm also asking because it wasn't like this years ago.  Your response makes me think that kids that don't pursue these options in high school are likely not college material. 

The bolded: out of nine kids I will be dual-enrolling my youngest, and the first to dual enroll, this fall. The others include a dd who has a Master's, a dd with an MD and who passed boards in two specializations after that, and two ds with  PhDs. I'm not at all saying that kids who don't do the extras aren't college material! I'm only saying that not all kids need to go to college to do well and provide for themselves or families. (Somewhat charmingly, one of ds17's motives for going into a trade is that he can support a family sooner! He wants ten kids, doesn't date yet, has no specific girl in mind that I know of, but he wants to be able to do this sooner rather than later!)

The one dual-enrolling also plans to go into medicine. We're letting her dual enroll because our local cc has a very good healthcare academy program with transferable credits that will shorten her undergrad time....also because she has done all the applicable sciences and maths I feel equipped to teach. She really wants to do the program. All I plan to do with her at home is literature, personal finance,  and perhaps an ancient history survey course over the next two years. A year from now I will be able to give feedback on that. She is extremely diligent but is a remediated dyslexic who reads very slowly in order to assimilate the material and she also has a part-time job and a couple of pretty time-consuming extracurricular activities. She'll be a good test case for stress levels, LOL.

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Hawkeyemom
2 hours ago, SewWhat? said:

French 1 being one semester is not crammed. It's normal. If you went to Indiana University (I just looked so I could see if I was thinking correctly) first year you'd be in Elementary French 1 first semester and elem FR 2 2nd semester. 2nd year would be French 1 first semester, French 2 second. Then on to conversational French in  3rd year, etc.

I have heard of block scheduling for high school. I've never seen a college run on that sort of schedule. If you go to college you take more than 4 classes a semester.

I think the point she is trying to make is that AP Chemistry at high school would last 36 weeks- a typical HS year.  Chemistry 1 in college (AP Chemistry's equivalent course) would last a college semester, 15 or 16 weeks- I forget what typical length is, so yes the pace in the equivalent college course is accelerated compared to its HS equivalent.

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tess in the burbs

We have talked about AP, CLEP, and DE at the CC.

Not all kids have access to AP classes, and the overall structure is to make a profit.   If a kid wants to study for it, fine, but I have heard you want/need your major courses done at college, so for my dd the AP she might have done at home she really needs to just do in college.

CLEP is too limiting in who accepts what.

Our CC is quarters, so you take multiple quarters to get a full series of credit.  Ds has no interest in a fast pace like that.  Dd would like to take ASL there, but we arent convinced yet it will be a good choice.  She cannot go until 11th, so we can think another year about it. 

 

I know kids get in w/o all those options, but it depends on the school.   

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home4learning
1 hour ago, the geographer said:

Big Sis had none of the above and got into the colleges she wanted no problem. I had really wanted her to take at least one cc class before she graduated but she really, really didn't want to so in the end I didn't push it and it was fine. We also talked about taking some CLEP tests but after the accepted students day at the college she chose and talking with admissions she decided against that as well since there wouldn't be much benefit. She made the transition to college with no problems and will graduate next year.

Little Sis took two cc classes her senior year, Spanish I in the fall and college composition in the spring. I had planned for her to take the comp class and Spanish II but the class was full when we went to sign her up. Having the Spanish class done helped her, her college requires a foreign language up to the 201 level by either taking the classes or testing out at that level. So she's done after this spring. The comp class accomplished what I wanted in high school (the English credit) but it didn't help in college. She did get transfer credit but it didn't get her out of their requirements. There isn't a required freshman English class, it's part of a series all students are required to take; fall freshman year the class is focused on writing, in the spring it's focused on speech. Anyway, it was a good experience for her to have the cc classes to see how college classes worked.

One thing I told her was that those classes took priority over anything at home and her other activities. Her homework for them had to be finished first since those grades would be looked at by colleges and transfer. I'm not sure I would have felt the same way about an AP class though. Like Debbie said above you need to do what's best for your student. It doesn't matter what the rest of us do, look at your student's goals and figure out how to help them achieve those goals.

It helps me to hear what other's experiences have been.  I don't plan to just follow what others have done - which is actually why I am asking.  I have an idea of what would be best for my DD but want to be sure I am considering all the facets of this decision.  Hearing how others have managed, what their experience was, the value or lack of it for their family helps me evaluate how that might or might not apply to our own.  Thanks so much for sharing!  It really helps me a lot. :)

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Hawkeyemom

Both of my first 2 did dual enrollment courses because, like Debbie said, we have a state university that is literally down the road from us.  Those courses transferred to any state school in our state.  They both had jobs, about 10-20 hours per week.  Neither were in extra-curricular activities mostly because of their jobs.

Dual enrollment has been beneficial to our family for the academic challenge and  social interaction.  Financially, it has also allowed our dd's to remain debt-free so far because of not having to pay room/board which is typically $9,000+/year.  DD2 received significant scholarships to pay for college. She is a first semester junior at 18 and is on track to graduate at 20 (but is interested in PT so she won't be done with school).  She wants to get on with her life, so it's been beneficial to her.  She started by taking 1 course her sophomore year, and worked up from there to 2, then 3, then a full-load.  She took mostly gen ed type courses and had most of those boxes checked when she transferred.  She wouldn't have needed the classes for admittance, but they did help her with scholarships.

DD's one critique was that they felt they wasn't adequately prepared to handle certain social situations (like attention from boys).  They went from basically youth group type situations to many boys wanting contact information and the boys weren't necessarily just interested in being friends, IYKWIM.

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dwilterd

My dd18 has taken one CLEP: Spanish. She finished Spanish IV her junior year and we knew she likely wouldn't be taking any Spanish as a senior so we wanted to have her get some sort of testing credit done for it. We knew a lot of the colleges she was looking at would accept it, plus we figured it would give her Spanish abilities some weight in the college application process (she scored a 77/80 on the test, a 63 is considered passing the first 2 years of college Spanish). After that one test, we decided to wait on others until we knew for sure where she would attend and what they would accept. She has her college selected now and we looked into having her take the Calculus CLEP, but her college won't accept that (they would accept AP Calc, but I think we're too late for that at this point) so I guess she'll have an easy class (hopefully!) to start her college life with. Oh well.

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home4learning
1 hour ago, Countrymom9 said:

The bolded: out of nine kids I will be dual-enrolling my youngest, and the first to dual enroll, this fall. The others include a dd who has a Master's, a dd with an MD and who passed boards in two specializations after that, and two ds with  PhDs. I'm not at all saying that kids who don't do the extras aren't college material! I'm only saying that not all kids need to go to college to do well and provide for themselves or families. (Somewhat charmingly, one of ds17's motives for going into a trade is that he can support a family sooner! He wants ten kids, doesn't date yet, has no specific girl in mind that I know of, but he wants to be able to do this sooner rather than later!)

The one dual-enrolling also plans to go into medicine. We're letting her dual enroll because our local cc has a very good healthcare academy program with transferable credits that will shorten her undergrad time....also because she has done all the applicable sciences and maths I feel equipped to teach. She really wants to do the program. All I plan to do with her at home is literature, personal finance,  and perhaps an ancient history survey course over the next two years. A year from now I will be able to give feedback on that. She is extremely diligent but is a remediated dyslexic who reads very slowly in order to assimilate the material and she also has a part-time job and a couple of pretty time-consuming extracurricular activities. She'll be a good test case for stress levels, LOL.

Wow!  Thank you!  My gut reaction to your first reply was that my "average" students might just not be ready or motivated.  And you are right, they might not be.  But by "average" I really mean they are not highly academically oriented kids.  They are "A" students but not Rhodes Scholars.  My kids are not the ones who descend on a Sonlight box day with anticipation, avidly grabbing the books and running off to read them before I even have a chance to check the book list (as I hear some other families report).  We have done many, many SL cores but as we have moved up them we have learned we cannot complete an entire core in a year.  It is too much for us.  We can typically get to at least week 30, but the last 6 weeks are either dropped or moved into the next school year.  My kids will work hard, but they are slow readers and not the best test takers.  We struggle in math.  But we do work hard and they know the end goal is to go to college.  DH and I work hard to fine tune their learning and opportunities to their strengths, so we have one pursuing a degree in Media Communications with an emphasis in film next fall at her college of choice.  The upcoming one, the one I'm trying to decide on AP/CLEP/Dual enrollment wants to go to school so she can save animals.  She's willing to do the work.  I just want to be sure I don't give her more than she can handle if I really don't need to.  Hearing from others helps me know to what degree I will either be helping or handicapping her based on how much we do or do not pursue one or more of these options.

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home4learning
45 minutes ago, Hawkeyemom said:

I think the point she is trying to make is that AP Chemistry at high school would last 36 weeks- a typical HS year.  Chemistry 1 in college (AP Chemistry's equivalent course) would last a college semester, 15 or 16 weeks- I forget what typical length is, so yes the pace in the equivalent college course is accelerated compared to its HS equivalent.

Yes!  And I wonder if that accelerated pace will overwhelm my DD unless I do like SewWhat did and make allowances in her schedule for that fact that she will have this one class.  If she only does one Dual enrollment course, I fear it will be a lopsided schedule where she will feel overloaded that one semester while also doing her full year coursework in 5 other subjects if we are trying to fit in 6 credits for the year.

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home4learning
36 minutes ago, tess in the burbs said:

We have talked about AP, CLEP, and DE at the CC.

Not all kids have access to AP classes, and the overall structure is to make a profit.   If a kid wants to study for it, fine, but I have heard you want/need your major courses done at college, so for my dd the AP she might have done at home she really needs to just do in college.

CLEP is too limiting in who accepts what.

Our CC is quarters, so you take multiple quarters to get a full series of credit.  Ds has no interest in a fast pace like that.  Dd would like to take ASL there, but we arent convinced yet it will be a good choice.  She cannot go until 11th, so we can think another year about it. 

 

I know kids get in w/o all those options, but it depends on the school.   

Everything you listed here are the reasons I hesitate on any of them.  I'm concerned the DE would be too fast of a pace for her unless she was doing most of her courses that way and could focus in on 2-3 classes per semester.  To take one or two classes on top of her other year long coursework seems like it could be overwhelming.  But she could also rise to the occasion and love having it all done that quickly.  Plus there is the issue of what time/day the classes are offered and the extra effort to get her to and from.  She won't have her driver's license until the spring semester of 2019.

 

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SewWhat?
56 minutes ago, Hawkeyemom said:

I think the point she is trying to make is that AP Chemistry at high school would last 36 weeks- a typical HS year.  Chemistry 1 in college (AP Chemistry's equivalent course) would last a college semester, 15 or 16 weeks- I forget what typical length is, so yes the pace in the equivalent college course is accelerated compared to its HS equivalent.

I guess my thinking is that if you're taking a college class it's going to be at college pace. Not high school pace. Look up the thread @Mazurka has going about her dislike of AP and dual credit classes taken in the local high schools. They're not as stringent as a regular college class if it's taken at regular high school pace/level. 

Take your dual credit AT a college if you want a real college experience. And, the real college experience is going to be a full college credit class in one semester.

19 minutes ago, home4learning said:

Yes!  And I wonder if that accelerated pace will overwhelm my DD unless I do like SewWhat did and make allowances in her schedule for that fact that she will have this one class.  If she only does one Dual enrollment course, I fear it will be a lopsided schedule where she will feel overloaded that one semester while also doing her full year coursework in 5 other subjects if we are trying to fit in 6 credits for the year.

Make it even then. If you are going to do a dual credit class at college then there will be fewer full-year courses. That's how high schools are worked out too. You're not taking 7 full-year courses. Some are, English, math, science, but not all, art, speech, etc.

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tess in the burbs
2 hours ago, home4learning said:

Everything you listed here are the reasons I hesitate on any of them.  I'm concerned the DE would be too fast of a pace for her unless she was doing most of her courses that way and could focus in on 2-3 classes per semester.  To take one or two classes on top of her other year long coursework seems like it could be overwhelming.  But she could also rise to the occasion and love having it all done that quickly.  Plus there is the issue of what time/day the classes are offered and the extra effort to get her to and from.  She won't have her driver's license until the spring semester of 2019.

 

I know here they recommend the child be doing DU at the CC and no other classes at home.  They want those kids in multiple classes and nothing else.  so 2-3 quarter classes for 3 quarters.  I know people who do just one class and more at home but the home stuff gets put aside.  I found that to be true even using online homeschool classes.  Priority is for those online class deadlines and everything else is rush through.  We don't like it.  We are doing everything back at home next year except DD's online ASL class, but that is one class that has never affected our other schooling with deadlines.  

 

My kids wouldn't have a license either and would have to learn to ride the bus.  I have yet to hear of a positive situation.  I have heard all about the bad ones.  Drugs, pregnancy, dropping out.  it's definitely an R rated situation in the DU classes.  I have heard just the normal CC classes without DU kids in them are better! How weird right?    I wanted to use these opportunities but right now it's not a good fit for our family.  Maybe Dd for ASL in the future.  But I know kids can go to college without all the stress.  So we are choosing the less traveled no stress path.  

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Momof4JackAttacks

It is not necessary to take dual enrollment college classes, CLEP or AP to get into college. There are many colleges that take homeschoolers without these things. Have your child take the ACT or SAT depending on what the college requires.  There are also many CC schools that don't even require ACT or SAT and have their own testing.  Also, make sure you have a good transcript made out for your student.

Edited by Momof4JackAttacks
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home4learning
2 hours ago, SewWhat? said:

I guess my thinking is that if you're taking a college class it's going to be at college pace. Not high school pace. Look up the thread @Mazurka has going about her dislike of AP and dual credit classes taken in the local high schools. They're not as stringent as a regular college class if it's taken at regular high school pace/level. 

Take your dual credit AT a college if you want a real college experience. And, the real college experience is going to be a full college credit class in one semester.

Make it even then. If you are going to do a dual credit class at college then there will be fewer full-year courses. That's how high schools are worked out too. You're not taking 7 full-year courses. Some are, English, math, science, but not all, art, speech, etc.

Thanks, Rebecca!

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home4learning
39 minutes ago, tess in the burbs said:

 But I know kids can go to college without all the stress.  So we are choosing the less traveled no stress path.  

THIS is what I think I just needed to hear.  I need to know it's okay if we DON'T do it.  I know (in my head) but sometimes you just need other momma's coming alongside and saying, "It will all work out.  Do what your baby needs and they will be okay."    Starting to let my breath out now . . . :biggrin:

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home4learning
41 minutes ago, Momof4JackAttacks said:

It is not necessary to take dual enrollment college classes, CLEP or AP to get into college. There are many colleges that take homeschoolers without these things. Have your child take the ACT or SAT depending on what the college requires.  There are also many CC schools that don't even require ACT or SAT and have their own testing.  Also, make sure you have a good transcript made out for your student.

Thanks!  I think we will just shoot for what makes sense and feels doable and just let the rest go.  Thank you.

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the geographer
15 minutes ago, home4learning said:

THIS is what I think I just needed to hear.  I need to know it's okay if we DON'T do it.  I know (in my head) but sometimes you just need other momma's coming alongside and saying, "It will all work out.  Do what your baby needs and they will be okay."    Starting to let my breath out now . . . :biggrin:

No, you don't need to do it. Like I said above, Big Sis had none of those things. She was one that was excited about the SL box when it came and all the new books, but is also a slow reader and not a very good test taker. She found the college that was a really good fit for her and has thrived there, on honor roll five out of six semesters (I'm assuming she'll be on it this spring :D ) and was planning to graduate early but the class schedule gods didn't align things to go her way. Needless to say, she just did high school, a couple of online classes, got into college, and has done great.

My other dd is my "average" student that  you were talking about. When she was young she loved the new books. Not so much when she hit middle and high school. She did school because she had to. She did fine, not great. She took the two cc classes and did really well there (having a teacher other than mom I think was part of it). She's finishing her freshman year at college and has done well, pretty much how I would have expected her to do.

It will honestly all work out. They will find their way and their place. 

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Hawkeyemom
4 hours ago, home4learning said:

Yes!  And I wonder if that accelerated pace will overwhelm my DD unless I do like SewWhat did and make allowances in her schedule for that fact that she will have this one class.  If she only does one Dual enrollment course, I fear it will be a lopsided schedule where she will feel overloaded that one semester while also doing her full year coursework in 5 other subjects if we are trying to fit in 6 credits for the year.

Well, 1 3 hour college credit class = 1 credit for high school. So, let's say your child did 1 DE course per semester.  Your child would then need 4 high school credits.

Only you and your child can answer if that would overload your student.  My students actually found most college classes to be less reading/work than SL- at least the introductory, gen. ed ones that they took. 

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Hawkeyemom
4 hours ago, home4learning said:

Wow!  Thank you!  My gut reaction to your first reply was that my "average" students might just not be ready or motivated.  And you are right, they might not be.  But by "average" I really mean they are not highly academically oriented kids.  They are "A" students but not Rhodes Scholars.  My kids are not the ones who descend on a Sonlight box day with anticipation, avidly grabbing the books and running off to read them before I even have a chance to check the book list (as I hear some other families report).  We have done many, many SL cores but as we have moved up them we have learned we cannot complete an entire core in a year.  It is too much for us.  We can typically get to at least week 30, but the last 6 weeks are either dropped or moved into the next school year.  My kids will work hard, but they are slow readers and not the best test takers.  We struggle in math.  But we do work hard and they know the end goal is to go to college.  DH and I work hard to fine tune their learning and opportunities to their strengths, so we have one pursuing a degree in Media Communications with an emphasis in film next fall at her college of choice.  The upcoming one, the one I'm trying to decide on AP/CLEP/Dual enrollment wants to go to school so she can save animals.  She's willing to do the work.  I just want to be sure I don't give her more than she can handle if I really don't need to.  Hearing from others helps me know to what degree I will either be helping or handicapping her based on how much we do or do not pursue one or more of these options.

My dd1 would be like your student.  She's an average student and she really doesn't have an academic bent. She didn't descend on our homeschool boxes either.  She just wants to check the boxes for nursing (her goal) and she's not going to be the top student in the class.  She received some B's, some  A's, and 1 C+ in her DE courses. She didn't find them much harder than SL and Apologia- she found them doable in other words.  The university that is close to us is part if the U of WI system, but it is not the flagship university in the state.  So, harder than the typical community college, but far from top tier.  

I  did flex due dates she had for me.  She did things like finish courses in summer (German).  But, she also had around 6 weeks off in Dec./Jan. from her college classes  that also allowed catch-up time in her HS classes.  If you decide on DE, try just 1 and see how it goes and evaluate from there. 

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Merry

We opted not to do AP/DE/CLEP here--absolutely not needed for many state and private schools, nor is it needed if you plan to go to a local CC and then transfer to a 4-year school later on. If you want to test the waters out with a course or two, go for it! If it's going to feel like an academic rat race, opt out. Honestly, I would consider your student's desires. If you have a student who really would like to do that and get a "jump start" on college, plus be more competitive for top scholarships, then I'd go for it. But if the student isn't really driving at that goal, it's not something you "have" to do to be accepted (and it's not even something you have to do to get some basic scholarships.) If your student is aiming for more competitive schools or might be a top 10% type of student, then consider it more strongly. But lots of kids go on to college without doing these. Most colleges like homeschoolers. 

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home4learning
We opted not to do AP/DE/CLEP here--absolutely not needed for many state and private schools, nor is it needed if you plan to go to a local CC and then transfer to a 4-year school later on. If you want to test the waters out with a course or two, go for it! If it's going to feel like an academic rat race, opt out. Honestly, I would consider your student's desires. If you have a student who really would like to do that and get a "jump start" on college, plus be more competitive for top scholarships, then I'd go for it. But if the student isn't really driving at that goal, it's not something you "have" to do to be accepted (and it's not even something you have to do to get some basic scholarships.) If your student is aiming for more competitive schools or might be a top 10% type of student, then consider it more strongly. But lots of kids go on to college without doing these. Most colleges like homeschoolers. 

Thanks! I’m settling back to our original plan I think. She will be taking at least two online (not DE or AP) courses that I know she will enjoy and/or provide the academic support she needs. And leaning toward using a writing coach, with the goal of getting her ready for a possible DE/AP English course senior year. We were already looking at that for her science as a senior. I just kept wondering if we should dabble in it as a junior but I’m thinking she’s not quite ready and there’s no need to rush it. She seems content with these options.

We’ve always planned one year at a time but with only two years left I’ve found getting a birds eye view to make sure we have all the credits she needs and a “path” to graduation is helpful. We are starting to investigate College/post high school options that will get her where she wants to end up so I’m sure as we learn more there it could tweak the plan (we’ve already opted to skip physics in favor of Advanced Marine Biology and DE or AP Environmental Science). She’ll do four years of math, but since she’s just now getting to Geometry (she did Alg1 followed by Alg2) I may have her do college Math her senior year instead of pre/Calc. Not super solid on that. So that could be at least 3 CC courses as a senior. I was kind of hoping to “trial” that route this year but currently that French class meets when her other online courses do so I’m not sure we can.

I’m telling you, planning all of this is a part time job!! Trying to investigate all the options and keep on top of our current school year is occupying all of my time. My poor twins think their upcoming birthday is being forgotten. (It isn’t.) LOL!
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Mazurka
20 hours ago, tess in the burbs said:

 I know people who do just one class and more at home but the home stuff gets put aside.  I found that to be true even using online homeschool classes.  Priority is for those online class deadlines and everything else is rush through.  

 

This is so true.

Will has one outside deadline that he has to meet, and so we are dropping other subjects for now so he can have more time per day to work on the paper.   It's the last writing assignment for his EIW program, and it's the research paper.   It's not due until May 15, but we're gone a week in early May, and then Will has his Eagle Court of Honor on May 15, so that paper needs to get done by the end of this month.  This is the one thing that I don't like about the EIW scoring service -- the dates go from August 1 to May 15, which are NOT our typical start and end dates.  

 

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home4learning

So talking it out with DD this morning, she actually might want to try the CC option next year . . . probably for French or Photography.  She needs one more elective.  So we submitted the application and will see what happens.  I can move her other online courses to different times to make room for French if she opts to go that route.  One step at a time, right?  I was leaning this way mostly to see if she could handle the CC option.  She wrinkled her nose when she learned she'd have to go to the school twice a week.  "Twice?" she asked me.  Her current in person courses meet once/week but are at a local homeschooling co-op organized by parents but taught by teachers.  It's a drop off situation, almost like school but not quite.  All the courses are a la carte so kids are coming and going all day.  She took Spanish, Chemistry and Writing there this year.  None of their courses are a good fit for us next year, so we are branching out.

Thanks for all the input!  Sometimes just thinking it through, "out loud", with feedback from others helps put it all in perspective.  I'm sure you will hear more of our journey as time goes on.  So thankful for you all and for the SL forums! :friends:

 

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Mazurka
20 hours ago, Momof4JackAttacks said:

There are also many CC schools that don't even require ACT or SAT and have their own testing.  Also, make sure you have a good transcript made out for your student.

The CC that Will is. going to has its own testing, and it appears to be much easier than the ACT or SAT, plus the student can take as much time as he or she needs, with the except of the writing portion which is limited to 90 minutes. 

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dwilterd

I'm trying to remember if this has been said yet, but honestly the big push for all of this stuff is really about saving money, especially for the more average students. My niece is taking a ton of AP classes because they're the most challenging classes offered at her school and she is aiming for selective east coast schools. Most kids I know that go the dual enrollment route are just looking to save money by taking classes on the state's dime. My daughter does want to save money, but isn't interested in getting through college as fast as possible. Her whole teenage life she has been dreaming of going to college just for the sake of learning everything she can possibly learn. That's one reason we haven't looked into DE very much.

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Mazurka
3 hours ago, home4learning said:



I’m telling you, planning all of this is a part time job!! Trying to investigate all the options and keep on top of our current school year is occupying all of my time. My poor twins think their upcoming birthday is being forgotten. (It isn’t.) LOL! emoji4.png

Oh the time.  It is overwhelming.  We still have so much to do to get Will signed up for CC, and I'm not sure how it will all get done.  Thankfully, my DH is helping with this.  And I'm very grateful that we got Will an official state ID last year when we went to Canada, since he doesn't have a driver's license and needs a picture ID.  One less thing to do now.

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smalltownmommy
33 minutes ago, Mazurka said:

The CC that Will is. going to has its own testing, and it appears to be much easier than the ACT or SAT, plus the student can take as much time as he or she needs, with the except of the writing portion which is limited to 90 minutes. 

I'm getting a jump start on worrying about this, since ds doesn't START high school until next year -- but I was relieved to note that worst case, if he doesn't take the GED, doesn't take the SAT or ACT, and gets a sudden case of test anxiety on the local CC test -- he could still be admitted there provisionally -- it seems they'll take quite the range for students over 16, and let them give it a try for one semester -- do okay with that, and you're in.

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Mazurka
20 minutes ago, smalltownmommy said:

I'm getting a jump start on worrying about this, since ds doesn't START high school until next year -- but I was relieved to note that worst case, if he doesn't take the GED, doesn't take the SAT or ACT, and gets a sudden case of test anxiety on the local CC test -- he could still be admitted there provisionally -- it seems they'll take quite the range for students over 16, and let them give it a try for one semester -- do okay with that, and you're in.

Yes.

The woman who gave the talk at the CC information session stressed this, how they try to work with students who are poor test takers.   My understanding is that if you pass the language test, you can go ahead and take the more liberal-artsy classes, even if you didn't pass the math portion, or vice versa.  It sounded like the school really tries to work with the students and help them succeed.

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home4learning
1 hour ago, Mazurka said:

This is so true.

Will has one outside deadline that he has to meet, and so we are dropping other subjects for now so he can have more time per day to work on the paper.   It's the last writing assignment for his EIW program, and it's the research paper.   It's not due until May 15, but we're gone a week in early May, and then Will has his Eagle Court of Honor on May 15, so that paper needs to get done by the end of this month.  This is the one thing that I don't like about the EIW scoring service -- the dates go from August 1 to May 15, which are NOT our typical start and end dates.  

 

Agreeing with this as well.  This is the last week of DD's co-op classes.  She has two big tests next Tuesday.  I moved all her "at home" work off the schedule until after next Tuesday so she can soley focus in on her last assignments and preparing for the tests.  But then she's done with 3 of her classes for the year.  We will use the end of the year to finish up history, literature and math - doubling up if needed.

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Momof4JackAttacks
9 hours ago, Mazurka said:

The CC that Will is. going to has its own testing, and it appears to be much easier than the ACT or SAT, plus the student can take as much time as he or she needs, with the except of the writing portion which is limited to 90 minutes. 

Yes, these tests tend to be easier and its easier to get into a CC. 

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Countrymom9

At our cc, if you don't pass the English and math at a certain level they'll just give you remedial classes till you catch up to the level they feel is adequate, if you're a high school graduate. For dual enrollment you have to meet a standard on the tests, though. 

Dd22 didn't work at her math at all in high school, just wailed about it a lot, and she had to take six three-week courses to catch up. She had to pay for them and of course they did not count as college credits or affect her GPA, but she found out she actually could do math. She was called on to help some of the struggling students. That amazed her! Of course it also took up time and set her back in her progress so she's been there three years now and still hasn't gotten her coursework all done to move on to another school to get her BA, which she'll do nontraditionally as well.

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HannahB

I thlnk most homeschoooled students who intend to go into higher education benefit from dual enrollment or some other sort of outside graded class. Certainly it's not a necessity, but I do think it can help. 

One advantage of dual enrollment is that the student earns college credit. With an AP class your student may or may not earn credit depending on test scores. We've had very good success with transferring CC credit, both to state and private schools. Dd entered college with 24 college credits taken in high school. Having ahead start can allow a student to take a lighter load some semesters, add in additional a major or minor, or graduate from a four year university in a shorter period of time ( which saves money!). 

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home4learning
Oh the time.  It is overwhelming.  We still have so much to do to get Will signed up for CC, and I'm not sure how it will all get done.  Thankfully, my DH is helping with this.  And I'm very grateful that we got Will an official state ID last year when we went to Canada, since he doesn't have a driver's license and needs a picture ID.  One less thing to do now.

Thanks for the reminder!! I need to get DD an ID as well.

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home4learning
I thlnk most homeschoooled students who intend to go into higher education benefit from dual enrollment or some other sort of outside graded class. Certainly it's not a necessity, but I do think it can help. 
One advantage of dual enrollment is that the student earns college credit. With an AP class your student may or may not earn credit depending on test scores. We've had very good success with transferring CC credit, both to state and private schools. Dd entered college with 24 college credits taken in high school. Having ahead start can allow a student to take a lighter load some semesters, add in additional a major or minor, or graduate from a four year university in a shorter period of time ( which saves money!). 

This is the overall sense I’ve been getting. Surprisingly DD seems open to trying a CC class so we’ve applied and will need to take the placement tests. When I started this thread I was considering some pretty intense sounding AP courses.

I think even just the process of applying and testing will be good for her. She gets very anxious about this kind of thing. If she does well, it will boost her confidence. If she just does okay or poorly we will know where to focus her energy and shore up her skills. I’m still unsure what courses to look into - currently considering electives. Her core courses are covered for next year. One step at a time. Once we get the ball rolling the advisors might point me in a direction I haven’t thought of yet.

Here they make a distinction between high school enrichment and dual enrollment. I’m not exactly sure what that means. I believe it simply means she can earn college credit but isn’t actively working toward a degree.

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Merry
On 4/19/2018 at 5:54 PM, Momof4JackAttacks said:

Yes, these tests tend to be easier and its easier to get into a CC. 

For dual enrollment, it depends on the state and how their system works. Here there are two kinds of tests. One kind is for a program where the state pays for the dual enrollment courses. Students in this program have to be in the top 10% of their class and achieve a certain score on the entrance exams. It's actually a more stringent requirement than high school graduates would have for going to a state school. Another kind is where any student could dual enroll, but it's on the parent's dime. They don't have entrance tests but just placement tests that determine whether they can go right into college courses or if they first have to take remedial courses in reading, writing, or math. 

18 hours ago, home4learning said:


Here they make a distinction between high school enrichment and dual enrollment. I’m not exactly sure what that means. I believe it simply means she can earn college credit but isn’t actively working toward a degree.

"Enrichment" to me sounds like it's not a transfer course--not a course that "counts" towards a 4-year degree. It might count towards a certificate or an applied science degree, or it might just be "high school enrichment." Dual enrollment courses count towards an associate's degree that can then transfer to a 4-year school and count towards a bachelor's degree. 

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home4learning
"Enrichment" to me sounds like it's not a transfer course--not a course that "counts" towards a 4-year degree. It might count towards a certificate or an applied science degree, or it might just be "high school enrichment." Dual enrollment courses count towards an associate's degree that can then transfer to a 4-year school and count towards a bachelor's degree. 

It does sound like it might not count, doesn’t it? But I know many moms whose kids have gone this route and entered college with X number of credits - one with enough he graduates college after three years at a four year school. So I will definitely be asking about it.

 

We are just taking the first steps now. I have no idea if we will end up with a class or not - but since she’s open to it we might as well start down the path and see where it leads.

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HannahB

You might let your student look through the catalog for courses she might be interested in. If you know other homeschoolers in your area, ask around for good first classes.  Dd took a mix of fun electives and courses I thought would be beneficial. 

 

Be sure to encourage your student to take advantage of all the resources. Most colleges offer free tutoring for specific classes. My kids used this for foreign language study. Colleges will also have a writing center to help with papers. 

 

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Momof4JackAttacks
17 hours ago, Merry said:

For dual enrollment, it depends on the state and how their system works. Here there are two kinds of tests. One kind is for a program where the state pays for the dual enrollment courses. Students in this program have to be in the top 10% of their class and achieve a certain score on the entrance exams. It's actually a more stringent requirement than high school graduates would have for going to a state school. Another kind is where any student could dual enroll, but it's on the parent's dime. They don't have entrance tests but just placement tests that determine whether they can go right into college courses or if they first have to take remedial courses in reading, writing, or math. 

 

Dual enrollment could be different each state. I actually wasn't referring to dual enrollment, but just getting into a CC, which is easier.  In MN dual enrollment and a regular entrance for a graduated senior take the same test, the Accuplacer, to get into a state CC.  CC in MN does not require ACT or SAT.  The Accuplacer test is easier than ACT or SAT and students in MN take it whether they are a high schooler or have graduated high school.  Dual enrollment is free in MN for all juniors and seniors in high school if they do well enough on the ACT or Accuplacer.

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Momof4JackAttacks
12 hours ago, HannahB said:

You might let your student look through the catalog for courses she might be interested in. If you know other homeschoolers in your area, ask around for good first classes.  Dd took a mix of fun electives and courses I thought would be beneficial. 

 

Be sure to encourage your student to take advantage of all the resources. Most colleges offer free tutoring for specific classes. My kids used this for foreign language study. Colleges will also have a writing center to help with papers. 

 

Yes, this.  Colleges offer many different classes than I can offer them at home.  I know many homeschoolers in our area who have done dual enrollment but others have not.  Dual enrollment is a great opportunity to "get their feet wet" so to speak in what a college is like.  My 11th grade ds is taking one class this semester at the local CC. He is doing really well and wants to make many more credits his senior year.  Of my 4 boys, my 11th grader struggles more with school, but I encouraged him to at least take one college class this semester and he really likes it.

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Merry
4 hours ago, Momof4JackAttacks said:

I actually wasn't referring to dual enrollment, but just getting into a CC, which is easier. 

I thought that might be what you meant, but since a lot of the conversation had gone to dual enrollment, it wasn't really clear which tests each post was talking about!

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Mazurka
On 4/21/2018 at 7:52 AM, HannahB said:

 

 

Be sure to encourage your student to take advantage of all the resources. Most colleges offer free tutoring for specific classes. My kids used this for foreign language study. Colleges will also have a writing center to help with papers. 

 

The dual enrollment program that my son is currently applying to required a college success class, and one of the purposes of that class is to make sure students are aware of all of the resources that are available to them.  I think it's a great idea.  The textbook for the class is a planner.  I really hope that the students get some good feedback on using a planner.  I have had absolutely no luck getting my older son to use something like that.  

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Mazurka
On 4/24/2018 at 10:18 AM, Mazurka said:

The dual enrollment program that my son is currently applying to required a college success class, and one of the purposes of that class is to make sure students are aware of all of the resources that are available to them.  I think it's a great idea.  The textbook for the class is a planner.  I really hope that the students get some good feedback on using a planner.  I have had absolutely no luck getting my older son to use something like that.  

I thought some of you might be interested in the course description for the college success course at my son's school.    It sounds well-thought out, although I guess we'll see how it turns out in practice.

https://www.durhamtech.edu/academics/coursedescriptions/courseoutlines/ACA122.pdf

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Sandwich in Wi

My second dd, first homeschool graduate, didn't have any of those and she was accepted, no problem to the local 2 yr college, AND offered a nice scholarship. We didn't know how to do AP credits from home when she was in high school.

My oldest went to and graduated from public school and had AP credits for Psych, Biology, Chem and Calc.  She was told not to take the AP exam for Spanish as it was better to just take the placement tests at her college,  which was true.  The AP test would have gotten her out of 2 semesters of Spanish, I think, but she tested into 4th semester Spanish and then got retro credits for the first 3.  Because she was a Broadfield Science major, she still had to take Bio and Chem in college, but got the credits for them (so double credits, or maybe they gave her the general Bio and Chem credits, but she still had to take the specialized science major Bio and Chem? Not sure) but she did get out of taking Psych and Calc. What the AP credits and her placement test credits (she also tested into 2nd semester English Comp) DID give her was early registration after the first semester and the ability to triple minor while still graduating on time (Biology, Chemistry and Spanish). So all in all, she earned 31 credits via AP or placement testing.

My 3rd dd has been carefully figuring out her AP schedule now that we know what to do.  She's taken SL's AP Pysch class this year and will take the AP test at our local high school next week.  It has been VERY stressful for her and I've emphasized that she can just take the class for the learning and she doesn't have to take the AP test, but she wants to try it.  It's been a lot of work at a fast pace to get ready by the first week of May.  Next year she's taking AP Calc and AP Chem at the high school and Apologia Advanced Physics at home for the AP test.  She's planning to major in mechanical engineering, so with any luck, she'll test out of Calc 1 and Chem for Engineers.  I don't think she can test out of Physics 1 as an engineering major, but the AP Physics will hopefully prepare her well and make Physics 1 easier.  And the AP Psych should get her out of one humanities course.  Then placement testing should hopefully get her into Engl. Comp 2, as well and some retro credits in Spanish.  With engineering, just having the extra credits is so important as you get to register sooner than those with fewer credits, hopefully getting classes that fill quickly.

As I said, however, dd #2 did not do any extra stuff and was readily accepted to college with just her homeschool transcript and a very good ACT score. 

Blessings, Sandwich

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doxa

I really think you don't need to worry about it. 

I don't think most colleges have to see college course credit on a transcript before they will admit students.  

Many of the courses that we homeschoolers teach would be the equivalent of high school honors level courses anyway.  They would count for more than 4 points in calculating a GPA.

I have always been one to "buck the trend".  When other people were off whisking their kids to a million different after school activities I had mine do one or none -- we just didn't want to play that game and exhaust ourselves.  It struck me how so many others made it seem as if since they were doing "X, Y, and Z" their kids would be accepted into all the best schools, and those who did not -- well, who knows?

My older two kids took honors courses - no college credits -- and both did just great in college.

All of this is to say that there is no need to apply undue pressure on yourself or your kids to do CLEP, dual enrollment, or AP if you don't want to and if you think it will be too much.  My son can't handle too heavy a workload at this point, and I just figure that when he goes to college (if that's what he wants to do) he will just take fewer courses and go at a slightly slower pace.  At the end of the day, it's not a race.  It's all good.  

 

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Jen in ME

I’m coming in on this late, but one other thing you will want to consider is the opportunity cost of dual enrollment, CLEP or AP.

We just went to a homeschool graduation where the young man had earned 40 credits of college in high school.  He only did college courses his last 2 years of high school.  I understand how this really makes sense with their situation.  But basically his mom stopped homeschooling him after 10th grade. 

I just think about all that my child learned her last two years of high school and the discussions we were able to have about what she was learning.  She did worldview and philosophy and 20th century history.  I got to continue reading aloud to her and pick her books.  My STEM oriented child had the chance to learn science from a book that encouraged her to see the fingerprints of God in the world.

I think I know 3 homeschoolers who have done extensive dual enrollment.  These students also tended to get a job and be really busy with work and school.   At least 2 of the 3 got pretty disconnected from the homeschooling community and went through a time of being a little lonely.  Just another thing to think about.

That being said, my oldest who is just graduating did a few CLEP tests.  We made studying for them part of her homeschool day and it didn’t interrupt her schooling at all.  My second dd (finishing 9th grade) will probably not take any CLEPS.  I can see her taking a class or two dual enrollment in the future.

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